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Post by shiloh on Jun 12, 2015 11:26:08 GMT
Okay. Please forgive me if I don't word this correctly. I'm only on my first cup of coffee, but I was thinking about this last night. When God created the angels, He gave them free will. Why did He create mankind? I know that it is all part of His perfect plan, that He knows the end from the beginning and that we are a little lower than the angels for now (as Paul said). But, why would Christ die for us, who are nothing? Is it because of pure faith and believing on Christ that He died for us sinners? The Bible is pretty silent on that and maybe we aren't meant to know yet. I have so many questions on this. Lucifer was the highest, most glorious angel, head of the heavenly choir, yet he took one third of the angels with him. I understand the fact that it was pride that was his downfall. I just don't understand how one could go against their Creator.
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Post by Gr8tful on Jun 12, 2015 16:50:11 GMT
My answer won't be a deep theological one. More my thoughts I guess. First off, of course you understand how one could go against their Creator, we do it all the time BUT some do it their whole life! Like rebellious children who turn their back on their family and go off and 'smear' the family name or whatever it is that they do. Worse, one who was in the presence of God Himself and feel that he could be even more than God.... And manage to take with him 1/3 believing it too, shocking! But pride is pride. That's why I really believe now that when the time comes he will think he will conquer God. I believe he thinks he has a fool proof plan to overcome God and rule for eternity instead. As for your other questions, I've wondered the same things many times. I've always heard it was becuz He wanted to create us in His own image and have fellowship with us. Why weren't angels created that way too? Don't know. Maybe they were more as a way to serve Him, but not fellowship and have a relationship like we do? As in, there's family and then there's others. We all know the difference with family, tho we're close to others, they are still not as close as family in ways. Why create man? For that reason, to have a family? Since we chose Him, we become adopted into His family! So He gave all the choice to accept His open enrollment of being adopted by Him. I know somebody's going to post something that's going to make me go. OH Yeah, duh!! But i'm not done w/my coffee either!
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Post by morningstar on Jun 12, 2015 17:01:29 GMT
I've wondered about that too Shiloh, well, I don't know either (Gr8tful you can now say Oh Yeah, duh!) I've read so many opinions on this but I guess we won't know the full true meaning until we can ask that in Heaven..we'll have an eternity to have all our questions answered. I can hardly wait.
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Post by shiloh on Jun 13, 2015 4:04:37 GMT
I think that's an excellent answer about a relationship with Him. But, wouldn't you think the ones that have seen their Creator would have a relationship with Him also? I just don't get that. Is it part of what is included in scripture - blessed are those whom have not seen but believe". ? (Sermon on the Mount)
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Post by Gr8tful on Jun 13, 2015 15:31:17 GMT
I'm sure He did and does have a relationship with the angels. As He loves all His creation. I assume they aren't created in His image as we are. Since there's different types of angels I assume too that they were created each with a different purpose. I don't see where they go through the 'birthing' process as we do and learn along the way and serve in a few different ways, we grow, mature, we fall and we get back up. They seem to be each for a purpose and no more. They serve the Almighty God and always in His full presence and love. That's why there's no 2nd chance for them. They are in His presence already. Like you said, blessed are those who have not seen but believe!
Again my thoughts.
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Post by shiloh on Jun 13, 2015 16:03:01 GMT
Good points, gr8tful.
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Post by Leeza on Jun 13, 2015 17:59:01 GMT
Good question, Shiloh. I think that Gr8tful hit it on the head about creating man in His image. I believe that's the key there. Angels weren't made in His image, we are. It's like a newly married couple wanting to have a child of their own, and the thrill of seeing that beautiful baby born in their image, the combination of their two gene pools and the results thereof. Before the baby is born, they wonder how the baby is going to look like...the mother or the father? And when the baby is born, the thrill of seeing him/her for the first time and the miracle of the birth.
Well, just imagine God being a parent, and seeing His children being born by the millions. I think it gives Him the same thrill as that couple does each time they have a baby.
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Post by shiloh on Jun 13, 2015 21:34:29 GMT
That was well explained too, Leeza. It gives me a better insight with both of yours and gr8tful's explanations. However, I believe you meant, she "hit the nose on the head."
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Post by Leeza on Jun 13, 2015 23:34:56 GMT
Hahahaha! I will never live the "nose on the head" down, huh?
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Post by shiloh on Jun 14, 2015 5:10:58 GMT
No, you won't live that down, Leeza. Just because it was so funny.
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Post by elizabeth on Jun 14, 2015 19:57:43 GMT
Gr8tful, I really liked your ideas, in particular, but this whole discussion has been interesting. Oddly enough, these questions have never crossed my mind. Thanks Shiloh for bringing up this discussion.
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Post by Gr8tful on Jun 14, 2015 21:07:55 GMT
Hey I posted a comment yesterday re: leeza's post about when parents have babies. Don't know what happened to it!? I must have forgot to hit send. Anyway...that was just perfect Leeza! A very beautiful comparison! It's funny when I hear people say having kids is narcisstic! Wanting a 'mini me' and all. I believe they miss the point. I really liked your post Leeza.
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Post by Leeza on Jun 14, 2015 21:12:01 GMT
Thank you, Gr8tful, and you, too, Shiloh, for your support for what I said. I've never had children, but even so, I would imagine how excited parents are to see their babies for the first time. So, in light of that, I thought since the Lord is the Creator of all, He would also have the same sense of love and pride like parents do.
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Post by Gr8tful on Jun 14, 2015 22:04:37 GMT
Yes your description is soooo wonderful becuz He truly does marvel over us and looks forward to our birth! I know when I first realized that some yrs ago it just touched me sooo deeply that He would love ea one of us with that kind of love!! A perfect love. It is really humbling and hard to even imagine He loves me that much that He looked at me at birth w/such love and adoration! His heart just bursting...that's so hard to grasp, but yet it's so true!
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Post by shiloh on Jun 15, 2015 4:56:47 GMT
That was a lovely way to word that, gr8ful. I never understood that either with the mini-me. One would think that all you'd care about is that baby is healthy. I didn't see that post, so maybe you did forget to hit send/create post. I can't even count how many times I've done that and then, I'm too lazy to retype the whole thing back out. I just get disgusted with myself and go off to get stuff done.
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