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Post by shiloh on Nov 3, 2013 5:22:13 GMT
This is this week's feature article by Jack Kelley. It always bothers me when people use verses as referring to the church age and take them out of context. I've been guilty of that in the past until I really studied the context and who the audience was that was targeted. This is a good one......and it looks like I'm having a little posting party all by myself here tonight...lol
The Three Questions Of Matt. 24 gracethrufaith.com/end-times-prophecy/the-three-questions-of-matt-24/ Fair Use for Information and Discussion Purposes
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Post by Benjamin on Nov 3, 2013 6:17:01 GMT
What an excellent article. I do like most of Jack Kelley's writing. I agree with your point too - there was a time that I looked at everything through, as Jack Kelley says, "church-tinted glasses" - as much, I think, the result of being in a Presbyterian church as anything else. Now, though, I find it so hard to understand how or why the church can't see these things... particularly as it pertains to Israel and her restoration in the Last Days.
I started writing something a while back called "A Call to Repentance", which I'd penned as a critique of the Presbyterian church's view of Israel. Someday I'll finish it and post it here. There's a simple point made all the way back in Genesis that reinforces the importance of supporting Israel:
This is why supporting Israel is so important - because when we don't, we bring the Lord's own church under a curse!
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Post by morningstar on Nov 3, 2013 16:39:34 GMT
it looks like I'm having a little posting party all by myself here tonight...lol
Shiloh, you did post a thread "The Loneliness of the Christian".....LOL!! Jack Kelly Wrote: Clearly the Olivet Discourse was given to and for Israel. No matter what view you hold of the sequence of End Times events, if you’ve based it on an assumption that the disciples represent the Church in the Olivet Discourse, it’s time to re-think your assumption.
Sadly, most Christians make this mistake, and seem to think this, and this is why there is so much confusion about the End Times in the Church. There are a lot of new Prophecy Teachers today who have taken so much of the Olivet discourse out of context and also other prophetic scriptures pertaining to the end times, Christians will follow these teachings without doing their own homework. First of all and most importantly unless we understand the dispensations and how it relates to Israel and the Gentiles from Genesis to Revelation, we could easily misinterpret the prophetic Word, and that is what is happening today.
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Post by shiloh on Nov 3, 2013 18:58:46 GMT
LOLOLOL, Morningstar. I guess I just never realized how that hit so close to home. Now, I'm going to be laughing about that. Leave it to you to point that out. Benjamin, I really have never researched what the Presbyterian church's beliefs are as far as their doctrine goes. But, don't you think that many denominational churches are along hat same route as far as how hey view Israel? I know the RCC does and that was my background. I have reached a few but most are just so ingrained in their teachings that they cannot see. The pope, being the Vicar of Christ (as we were taught) was the only one who was "gifted" by God to interpret prophecy. No one was ever encouraged to read and study God's Word. It wa always the attitude of, "Let us tell you what it means". I felt so free when I started reading and studying and yes, there is always something to learn from God's Word, which is why I can easily see how it is a lifelong study. It wasn't God who complicated it. It was mankind and Satan..he is the author of confusion. So, you are not alone. I have so many from my Catholic upbring that look at me as if I just stepped off of another planet and do not understand the importance of Israel and God's perfect plan. This one guy I know is very sarcastic in a mocking sense and told me "God's plan has nothing to do with a stupid piece of land" and proceeded to yell at me about how God divorced Israel and we, the believers in Christ are their replacement (Replacement Theology). People from the church he attends started leaving. He even intimidated the pastor and his wife won't go to church with him anymore. He's very condescending but I gave it right back. I had to. He belongs to some sect (must be a cult) that calls themselves the "Truth Seekers". I said, "Wasn't that a singing group? Are you still stuck in the 60s..lololol...who just stepped off another planet?!" I won't even bother telling you about the lady who was a friend of mine who was in a home bible study group with me and turned on a dime as far as interpreting scripture and prophecy. She bacame a Preterist. We don't talk anymore. That's a long story. I would love to read your writing when you have time to finish it.
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Post by Benjamin on Nov 3, 2013 20:21:11 GMT
Well, on that point, they're actually right. God DID divorce Israel.
This is a whole study in and of itself, but there's a reason why Paul talks about divorce and remarriage in Romans. He talks about it in the context of the law, but the application is broader.
God married Israel, then put her away with a certificate of divorce. How then can He possibly remarry her without violating His own law? Well, that's simple - death breaks the bond of the law. This is yet another reason why Christ had to die - so that God could be justified both in divorcing, and in restoring Israel. Without the death of Christ, God would remain bound by His own Word to remain divorced from her... but as it is, that death means that God may once again marry Israel, and call her to Himself.
...so ultimately, it's not just that the RCC and its daughter churches (the Presbyterian church came out of the reformation, but the reforming stopped at salvation through faith alone and Sola Scriptura) fail to understand the role of Israel, it's that they fail to understand even the very doctrine they hang their hat on: the power of the death and resurrection of Christ.
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Post by shiloh on Nov 3, 2013 23:57:46 GMT
Right, and I understand completely what you are saying, Benjamin. The problem is that he and many stop at the point of God divorcing Israel. They also do not believe that the land Covenant was unconditional. So, Israel, in their belief, is no longer relevant. I know that's a long, involved discussion too.
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Post by Benjamin on Nov 5, 2013 21:13:45 GMT
It's funny, we often look at that covenant with Abraham as being unconditional - but if you think about it, it really wasn't. God made that covenant on the basis of His own character. This is why He keeps reiterating who He is in the middle of these passages (Genesis 13-15). "I am your shield; your very great reward", and so on.
God will break this covenant with Abraham the day He ceases to be God. ...could be a long wait.
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