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Post by Benjamin on Jan 22, 2014 10:35:26 GMT
...worth a watch. I mean it - he really does lose his cool... and I agree with EVERY. SINGLE. WORD.
For those who don't watch: the title of the video is sarcastic, he is not in any way, shape or form setting a date for the Rapture, this week or otherwise.
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Post by shiloh on Jan 22, 2014 16:29:21 GMT
Very powerful! Thanks for posting this Benjamin and thank you Scottie!!!!! I don't think I could have said that any better!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 17:30:47 GMT
Why is he losing his cool? Does he not expect these things to continue happening? Does he somehow believe it is up to him to put an end to all the nonsense? If so, he should reconsider it, because that's not going to happen while we're here in this world, and especially not by the hand of one man. We should do our best to rebuke false doctrines, about the rapture or otherwise, as we come across them. But doing a video specifically analysing a number of date setting things in a sarcastic way is unnecessary to say the least. I've never taken much of a liking to this guy, because of such sarcasm, as it does not help anything one bit.
He showed the title on that thread on RITAN in such a way that it seems it is the most gullible site on the internet and that anyone can say "whatever they want," which is obviously not true or it would be a much worse place with way more false doctrines than those that do manage to creep in. I can't find the thread now, but I remember some of it and I remember Donna was posting it in a "Oh, he's gonna have a lot to explain if nothing happens" kind of way. She didn't post it in a "Oh, it's gonna happen!!!1" type of thing, as the title of the thread unfortunately made it seem to be. He also conveniently failed to scroll down and show posts like mine or Shiloh's urging people not to listen to man's words but put our trust in the Lord instead. I don't think anyone in that thread actually went out of their way to suggest or spread the word that it was indeed going to happen when that person was saying it would be.
I don't know what "Scottie's" beliefs are now, but not too long ago he was convinced that the rapture would happen on a Rosh Hashanah, whether on 2013, 2014 or whenever, and not on any other day/time and that anyone who suggested otherwise was wrong. It's easy to point fingers and tell other people what they are wrong in doing, especially in such a sarcastic way, but it's not as easy to have some self-control it seems. But then again, I'm sure he was born taught in everything, so I'm sure he's justified in doing things this way.
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Becka
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Post by Becka on Jan 22, 2014 17:53:58 GMT
I agree with it. I agree with John MacArthur (mostly) too. We need to call out the charlatans who give false prophecy and educate the brethren to the truth. Is there a better way than sarcasm to get the point across? Probably. But is what Scottie doing Scriptural? Absolutely! There's too much "live and let live" attitude in the Church - we need to stand up for Truth and expose false teachers and prophecy. Maybe their heart is in the right place and they're just deceived - we don't know - but it is our duty as Christians to call them to repent.
That is not UNloving, but the most loving thing we can do. When they stand before Christ on that Day, there will be a record of a brother or sister attempting to correct their false doctrine/teaching/prophecy, and that person will have no excuse, no one but themselves to blame if they refuse to repent.
~~Becka
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Post by shiloh on Jan 22, 2014 19:15:37 GMT
BroJohn, are you speaking of Scottie or Scott? Two different people and I don't ever recall him date setting. No, he's not thinking he can change what people put out there. He feels like a lone voice crying in the wind.
I have been rebuked by those who support date-setters and you're right, many will not change and will set others up for heart-break after heart-break because a high watch date came and went.
I don't believe it's possible to know the date of the Rapture or the Second Coming. Many refer to Matthew 24 in regards to the rapture, but that is strictly speaking of the Second Coming. Jesus' audience was the Jews. Those were the "elect" He was referring to. The church hadn't even been born yet. Remember, the "mystery" of the Rapture had not been disclosed until Paul revealed in in 1Corinthians 15.
I also don't believe it's possible to know the day of the Second Coming because of Matthew 24:22, among others.
I have been a watcher since the mid 70s and have seen these dates fail time and time again. Look at those who hang onto every word and lose hope. Look at the books that came out and have sold so many because the rapture was supposed to happen at a certain time.
Are we not to be like Bereans and search the Scriptures to see if these things are so?
The Rapture of the church depends on a set number and only the Lord knows that number who will come into the fold while the age of grace is ending. Can you, I or anyone else put a date on when His appearing will be? All we know is that the church will be gone before the Tribulation begins.
This is not a funny situation or something to gloss over. There have been people that have made Christians look like fools because of date-setting and some who have committed suicide over a failed dates for the rapture that came and went. People have sold everything they've had, etc.. So, I don't put those who date set on a pedestal and I think it's dangerous, myself.
We already KNOW we are in the season. We can see that by watching what's going on with Israel.
If someone cheers on the date-setters then that's fine. Just don't expect people who've been searching the Scriptures to jump on the date-setting band wagon and cheer them on. We should be ready every day and not get our house in order if we think we have a high watch date in a month.
That said, I agree with Scottie all the way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 20:07:18 GMT
I'm talking about the man in this video. I'm not cheering on date-setters, you've never seen me doing that and you never will. I'm saying I disagree with the way this person rebukes these false doctrines, through sarcasm, as if he was never wrong in anything. To rebuke and correct people that believe in false doctrines, all we need is Scripture, and the facts laid out clean, clear and unbiased, and for the Lord to open their ears. NOT sarcasm accompanying it.
If someone keeps going after false doctrines, it's not our job to be condescending and sarcastic about it, it's to continue correcting them when the situation arises, through Scripture, with the facts laid clean, clear and unbiased. If there is a person that continuously spreads false doctrines around, you pray for them, not make sarcastic videos about it. This is where I stand on it.
Isn't saying it will happen on a Rosh Hashanah, which this person did, similar to date-setting? It's the Lord's decision as to when the rapture will be. If we were to know the time, He would have told us. One should not go around pointing fingers, especially not when doing something similar. All this is what bothers me about these videos.
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Post by morningstar on Jan 22, 2014 20:21:30 GMT
There is an increase in date setters, and also people claiming to be Prophets and delivering messages that they claim came directly from the Lord. We as watchmen cannot lamely sit by and keep silent. As their voices increase, so should ours in defense of the Gospel in sound doctrine. But, in what vein are we supposed to warn those that follow these false teachers? If we warn them using sarcasm, calling them fools e.t.c. then our warnings will be lost even if we are using sound doctrine, then we are no better than those who use the same methods in bringing us down. I know that in my frustration I have been sarcastic in referring to those who listen to these YouTube Prophets, and believe me the Lord convicted me on this and I asked myself, is this the way the Apostles handled this problem, is this the way the Lord wants me to react? The answer is No....Yes there is Righteous anger, but it does not justify in what method we deliver our warnings. With that said, I do agree with what Scottie said, but not the method of delivery.
2 Timothy 3:13-17
New King James Version (NKJV)
The Man of God and the Word of God
13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
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Post by Becka on Jan 22, 2014 20:37:28 GMT
A lot of people rebuke in this way because "that's the way Christ rebuked", calling Pharisees "fools" and the like. However, the difference between YESHUA and US is that HE can perfectly see the person's HEART. When HE says it, it's absolute Truth, it's not mocking, it's not sarcasm. Mocking and sarcasm aren't done out of a heart of love, I think that's where BroJohn is coming from. I agree. Christ's method of rebuking was indeed stern, sharp, and to the point, but we must also realize that He had the advantage of being GOD.
Therefore, we must temper our message with love on the one hand, however, not tolerate false doctrine/prophecy on the other. Standing up for truth, though, has a caveat that you will be a bit abrasive (sounding, at least). I am a blunt person online. I call people out. I make them think. Yet like BroJohn says, I try to do it with Scripture. If they don't like it, they can take it up with the Good Book because that's what it says!
People don't like being confronted with truth because it "turns the lights on". Their only defense is to discredit the messenger of truth. That is why we're persecuted. People cannot stand submitting to truth, so they make the messenger the "bad guy". I have been perceived as the bad guy many, many times. It hurts, and I've cried a few times. But I refuse to sit idly by while my Lord's Word and His Integrity is raked through the mud.
~~Becka
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Post by shiloh on Jan 22, 2014 20:39:13 GMT
Some people come across as sarcastic when some consider it correction. Personally, when I find it Scriptural, I like correction. I have read things where I got corrected (not personally) but learned correction from teachings and Scripture. I've also seen many others be very sarcastic and demeaning to those of us who don't uphold what they claim to be true. I'm talking about referring to some of us as wearing "spiritual diapers" and "not honoring your elders" and how they deserve that because that person has been a watcher for 40 years. Well. I've been studying the Word too and have been a watcher for roughly a little under ten years less. I also have to say it was very insulting to say that some of us are called trollers and to keep our hands away from the computer when some were merely (and gently, I must say) trying to correct. If I can't take correction then there is something wrong. But it had better be Scriptural. .....now where's my slap button?  ? OH! Here it is....  |
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Post by Becka on Jan 22, 2014 20:50:42 GMT
I have learned the hard way, that truth is offensive - even to believers. I'm not claiming to say that I know it all, but I would say I have a HIGH sense of discernment. (Only with regards to spiritual things. I'm kind of a scatter brain in real life. lol) My discernment is pretty much right 100% of the time. Sometimes I don't listen to it. Other times I do. But my discernment is odd, it goes off at false doctrine/prophecy, but it also tells me things about people. At that point, would that be a word of wisdom? I don't know. People lament about their problem(s) with God and I know their problem *and* the way to fix it.
But my method apparently rubs people the wrong way because it suggests that they *aren't* praying or studying. Or that they aren't abiding in Christ. Or that they're blinded by something.
It's one of the reasons why I write blogs and books. If the information is more generally out there instead of directed specifically, maybe people won't be so offended by my words.
~~Becka
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 21:08:31 GMT
That's exactly where I'm coming from, Morningstar and Becka. The Lord knows the hearts, and He is always right, so He is justified in what He does. But any of us have made mistakes in the past, and we have to remember that. We are not justified in putting things this way, as Jesus did with the Pharisees by pointing out their sin, or being sarcastic about someone's mistakes, even if they just can't stop doing it.
A lot of false doctrines (not just about the rapture) make me pull my hair out too. Yet I don't see productivity, either personal or for others, in resorting to sarcasm or mockery about it, especially since I know so many times in the past I was wrong in what I believed, and if it wasn't for the Lord, I would still be lost. Rebuke and correct with Scripture as you come across false doctrines. Just let's not be condescending about it, as we have nothing of ourselves to boast over.
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Post by shiloh on Jan 22, 2014 21:32:12 GMT
But why is it that some can get away with being condescending and others are considered being condescending when standing on truth in regards to Scripture? I don't understand that.
I'm not talking about Scottie's post here. It seems some can get away with it while others can't and like you said, BroJohn, some of our threads are either glossed over, edited, etc. when we're only trying to stick to what Scripture says.
I'm not talking about knocking some people personally. That shouldn't be there at all. But if someone comes at me for standing on the Word, then I will not shyly back away. Peace as much as possible among the brethren. But at what cost? Are we to let false doctrine fly, wink and smile? Do we sugar coat everything? Some of us just feel very strongly about what Scripture has to say about everything and anything and that comes across only when others keep cutting your belief in what the Lord says in Scripture.
There ARE times that we have to remember to "shake the dust from your feet" and move on.
I can't be wishy-washy about that just because I want to be accepted or liked. I'm to that point where I don't care if people like me or want to white- wash everything. What's important to me, is "what does the Lord think about this or that?" Would He approve of me agreeing with false doctrine or beliefs?
Some of us just feel very strongly about our stance and some won't listen to what Scripture has to say on many things.
I can't even imagine what Paul went through and he was very staunch in his teachings. He wasn't exactly what I would call a "let's just all get along" kind of preacher. I don't go by my feelings. If I did, I would have gone the wrong path. I'd probably be...New Age or something - I dunno. I have to stand on Scripture.
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Post by morningstar on Jan 22, 2014 21:35:59 GMT
I agree BrotherJohn, and as Shiloh pointed out, that those on the other side of the fence can be insulting, sarcastic & demeaning when confronted with the Truth, and/or correction, yet this in itself should tell us not to fall into the same category, I am really enjoying the dialogue on this thread and everyone's thoughts which I think are very beneficial to us all.
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Post by shiloh on Jan 22, 2014 21:48:56 GMT
That was very diplomatic of you, Morningstar...lolololol..... but I agree with that. I think we are all just coming at this from different angles. I believe that beating someone over the head with the Bible can be as damaging as false doctrine...in the sense that it doesn't bring anyone closer to Christ. I'm not talking about being nasty about things or being like the Pharisees here. I'm talking about standing your ground. Otherwise, we become as pacifists...wishy-washy. It is obvious when someone is being cutting in their remarks (unless we're just teasing eachoher) and being firm on what you stand on. Some people come across as being cutting but their heart is grounded in the Word. They are just passionate about it as are others who let false doctrine creep in.
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Post by morningstar on Jan 22, 2014 22:05:12 GMT
Shiloh, you scamp!! Soooooo, I am being diplomatic am I, well, you got that right, but diplomacy also has truth in it....lol!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 22:28:18 GMT
It's not about sitting by and let anyone believe whatever they want. If you see someone teaching false things or being led astray from the Truth, then we should correct them, indeed, regardless of who they may be. But in a loving way, as many times as they err, that's how many times we should correct them with Scripture. "Seventy times seven." Not with sarcasm, but with things laid out clearly. If they still don't accept what the Word says, then it's between them and God, and we can pray about it as well.
I'm not going to go into who is allowed to post what on RITAN in particular, I don't like it as much as you do when false doctrines pop up. But unfortunately that's the world we live in, and we just have to continue doing our best to help people not be led astray by them, pray and trust that the Lord will help us.
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Post by shiloh on Jan 22, 2014 22:40:13 GMT
I agree but I was jusssssst having funnnnnnn...lol.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 22:54:02 GMT
What a tiny thing! Is that hamster? Lol, I can't tell.
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Post by morningstar on Jan 22, 2014 22:57:08 GMT
No, Brotherjohn....it's Shiloh,LOL
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2014 1:13:44 GMT
LOL. Well, well, well, look at Morningstar, with a funny bone, huh?
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Post by Benjamin on Jan 23, 2014 6:30:54 GMT
I actually didn't realise he'd referenced RITAN. I have to admit that I spent more time listening to the video than watching it (I was doing a few other things at the time!). I did hear him reference FiveDoves, though - and wholeheartedly agree with his assessment there.
I understand that sarcasm can be jarring - particularly when it comes to things like this.
I'm not necessarily saying that I think he's communicating his frustrations in the best possible way, simply that I understand and agree with those frustrations - wholeheartedly.
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Post by Benjamin on Jan 23, 2014 6:46:22 GMT
[moderator hat on]Site-Wide note, for all of us: I'm not going to edit or moderate this thread, but we need to be a little careful here, as we're treading a fine line. I'd prefer, both as a group, and as a site, if we steered away from addressing the specifics of other sites. We can't pretend that other sites don't exist, of course, but let's be tactful, and try to stay away from being critical of specific people or threads as much as possible.[moderator hat off]It's not about sitting by and let anyone believe whatever they want. If you see someone teaching false things or being led astray from the Truth, then we should correct them, indeed, regardless of who they may be. But in a loving way, as many times as they err, that's how many times we should correct them with Scripture. "Seventy times seven." Not with sarcasm, but with things laid out clearly. If they still don't accept what the Word says, then it's between them and God, and we can pray about it as well. What I would make a distinction over here is that there are false prophets, and there are those who are taken in by those false prophets. For those taken in...? Absolutely. Correct, with gentleness. I don't think Scottie did particularly well on that front in his video. Regarding a false prophet, though? I would consider gentleness to be wasted. I wouldn't consider correction, "as many times as they err", to be the right course of action. There has to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere; and, Scripturally, that line is inerrancy. If it's not of God, then... it's not of God. False prophets aren't genuine people who make a mistake about something - they're people who have heeded "the doctrines of demons". That's a hard thing to accept (and a hard thing to type!), but that's what Scripture says. As much as I didn't want to drag this particular gentleman into this conversation, Rody serves as a great example. I took him as genuine, but mistaken, when he stated that God had told him that the rapture would be in December 2013. I hoped, as he'd promised, that he would post a video admitting his error and repenting, if he were shown to be false. Unfortunately, he hasn't done that at all - rather, he's claimed that God showed him another 'truth' - that the Rapture is to be in 2014 now. The point is, this isn't a story about a sincere person being misguided. It's now become a story where time has shown Rody to be exactly what he is: a false prophet. Had he repented, then yes, gentle correction would have been the right approach. In the absence of repentance, however, the conclusion is fairly clear: whatever "Lord" he's listening to... it isn't the God of the Bible. The crux here, I think, is that Scottie (ERF) isn't talking about genuinely misguided people. He's talking about people who have ignored the Biblical imperative to "test the spirits" and instead are "following after every wind of doctrine" and listening to "whatever their itching ears want to hear". The Bible is actually INCREDIBLY blunt about these people; more so than Scottie is. There are entire books devoted to the judgement that is coming upon those who have abandoned the truth of God for the sake of a lie. I've quoted Jeremiah quite a bit lately, but the verse is apt here: "An astonishing and wicked thing has happened in the land: The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule under their own power; And my people love to have it so! ...but what will you do in the end?" This is precisely the scenario we're looking at. False prophets, preaching under their own power (not that of the Holy Spirit). This isn't the same as correcting our Brethren - the fact is, these people aren't brethren at all. I know that sounds harsh, but ultimately it's the truth of the matter... and God's Word is clear. These people are to be rejected, not corrected - because they are sent not to exhort, but to deceive... and the body of Christ needs to be kept pure for the day of His appearing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2014 15:23:10 GMT
I agree that we shouldn't accept or mingle with people that continuously spread false doctrines, and that there is a line at some point. I just think that it's not my place to judge them, even if I do reject their doctrines that they keep spewing out. I'll leave that to God. I'll just help misguided people, that have fallen for false doctrines, in whatever I can. But of course if I see that they are not listening with open ears but rather just trying to dispute the Word of God, then that's where I would draw the line and stop the conversation. If they refuse what His Word says, then I'll leave the judging to God.
The posts I made weren't to sugar coat the spreading of false doctrines, on that front I agree, but rather that sarcasm in videos like this is not going to help anything either. |
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Post by shiloh on Jan 23, 2014 15:23:40 GMT
I understand, Benjamin. I know you're right. That was my "woops". I think I might just saty off the sites for awhile. A lot of activities coming up around here anyway.
BroJohn...I think that IS a hamster....lol...I was trying to figure that out too.
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Post by Benjamin on Jan 23, 2014 21:02:59 GMT
I understand, Benjamin. I know you're right. That was my "woops". I think I might just saty off the sites for awhile. A lot of activities coming up around here anyway. BroJohn...I think that IS a hamster....lol...I was trying to figure that out too. There's no need for you, or anyone else, to stay away. You're important here; every one of our members is valued and appreciated... and my note wasn't aimed at you, or anyone else specifically, but just a general caution. We've all had conversations on here that have moved toward that fine line, and I just wanted to remind people to be careful, and to think carefully about what we bring with us to this site and to our conversations. So... stay. Keep posting... because if you don't talk on the Shoutbox, who will?  |
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Post by morningstar on Jan 23, 2014 21:31:15 GMT
I agree with you Benjamin, we can easily and unintentionally make comments and need a reminder every once in awhile. Thanks for keeping on top of things.
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Post by shiloh on Jan 23, 2014 22:53:47 GMT
Well, it is a good reminder though, Benjamin. Some things bring out the worst in me but all is agreed. Sometimes I just have to slap myself silly. Morningstar, I absolutely love your avatar! No if you'll excuse me....I have to go slap myself again and boy is my face getting sore.  |
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Post by morningstar on Jan 24, 2014 1:04:58 GMT
Don't get too slap happy Shiloh, just sit down take a break and have a snack...LOL Sometimes we feel like were almost there.....Then something happens and were right back where we started.
But one day soon we will be out of here for good...can hardly wait.
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Post by shiloh on Jan 24, 2014 1:56:19 GMT
Morningstar, I laughed so hard at those gifs! Those are so funny and cute! hahahahahahahaha..I don't know where you find those funny pictures at! Are you telling me to stop being a baby...lolol..it's too bad that racoon wasn't eating an eclair and having a cold glass of milk, huh?
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Post by lavoietheway on Jan 25, 2014 15:48:32 GMT
I finally had a minute to watch Scottie's video. I agree with him, and I am beyond worrying about sarcasm. In fact, I feel the personal need to avoid social media sites where there is an obvious tolerance for silly, convoluted, nonsensical, highly speculative and subjective approach to eschatology. I have a pretty solid foundation in the Scriptures and a fair amount of discernment, but I know that I am not immune to false teaching. I recognize the need, for myself, to protect my mind. Recently, I've been troubled by the lack of accountability allowed on some sites. I don't want my children to ever be exposed to some of the falsehoods out there. Are we not to be made accountable for being foolish with our words?
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