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Post by shiloh on Nov 4, 2013 21:45:26 GMT
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Post by morningstar on Nov 5, 2013 1:32:54 GMT
Excellent Article. I used to wonder why it was that there were Christians who held onto a Post-Tribulation view, when I thought that the scriptures were basically very clear on a Pre-tribulation view. That doesn't puzzle me anymore, because it is how "they" interpret the scriptures, they try and make their interpretation fit into the scripture instead of the other way around, and then of course if you do not read the Bible and understand how God worked with mankind through dispensations, prophecy becomes confusing and a little jumbled, and especially now when prophecy has become almost a potpourri of ideas and speculations.
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Post by shiloh on Nov 5, 2013 1:56:32 GMT
Yes, I agree. It's absolutely necessary to understand dispensations or it really CAN be misunderstood...so as we are the only 2 at the moment having a converstion on this board (lol), many denominations hold to the post Tribulation view which makes absolutely no sense. What do they think? How does that make any sense at all where we go up and come right back down with Jesus? There would be no time for the Wedding or to spend time in the New Jerusalem. Many don't separate God's plan for the the Jews from the Church. Maybe I'll go back to having another little posting party all by myself. hahahahahaha
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Post by Benjamin on Nov 5, 2013 7:29:25 GMT
Honestly, I don't think it even comes down to understanding of the dispensations.
I'd class myself as a dispensationalist, but I think that view itself stems from the acceptance of a literal approach to Scripture - and I think this is the key. If Scripture is taken literally, it makes sense. Where it isn't taken literally, people have to do some linguistic gymnastics in order to make things fit (assuming that they're being intellectually honest, but just misguided), OR, alternatively, people now have the opportunity to twist and flex Scripture in whatever direction they choose (because - why not? It's allegorical, so interpretation is up to me, right?).
Mid-trib and post-trib views fall into this first category, in my opinion - intellectually honest, but demonstrably false, stemming from a non-literal interpretation of Scripture and a total misunderstanding of prophecy as a result.
There are exceptions to this literal standpoint, obviously, but I think people often misunderstand those too. Symbolic literature isn't literal per se, but that does not equal allegory either, for example. The vast majority of Presbyterians follow in the footsteps of Augustine (and Origen before him) in this respect: they interpret the Scriptures allegorically. The difficulty and the danger here is that a non-literal understanding places the responsibility for interpretation on the reader, and in many respects takes that right away from the Holy Spirit. I don't want to stress that too much - obviously many people in this boat are honestly misguided, and seek the Holy Spirit's leading in many respects - but I think that the practice of interpreting the Scriptures in any manner other than that dictated by the text introduces an element of error (man) that simply shouldn't be involved in the first place. Taking Scripture literally circumvents this by allowing the text to dictate meaning on its own terms.
/end rant
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Post by shiloh on Nov 5, 2013 14:56:01 GMT
Oh, I agree 100% with that, Benjamin. Always take things literally unless we are told what something stands for and no other interpretation is necessary. The RCC does that too, in the sense of allegorizing much of scripture. Just one example, they are taught and believe that whenever Israel is mentioned after the Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah, that the RCC is now Israel.
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Post by morningstar on Nov 5, 2013 17:21:33 GMT
Benjamin, in a way we are saying the same thing. But as for myself, when I studied the dispensations in the beginning, this helped me in understanding God's overall plan for mankind, including the prophetic scriptures. And I agree, it is the literal interpretation of scripture including the allegorical which in itself has a literal meaning, that we can clearly for the most part understand the flow of scripture from Genesis through Revelation. Your right about how the Churches adopted the allegorical method of interpretation which was introduced by Augustine and Origen because of their lack of understanding Prophecy and the symbolism especially in the Book of Revelation as being a literal fulfillment, that they spirituralized most of the prophetic Word.
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Post by Benjamin on Nov 5, 2013 21:09:29 GMT
oh, we're absolutely saying the same thing... I was agreeing with you!
Shiloh, Presbyterians too believe that "the Church is the New Israel", and as such, they take all of the promises given to Israel to themselves (though oddly, none of the curses!).
This, of course, is a huge reason why they can't understand prophecy. How is a "New Jerusalem" relevant when the "New Israel" is spread all over the world? Obviously it can't be - so they spiritualize it. The New Jerusalem isn't literal, it's a symbolic representation of Jesus Christ's reign over the earth. Likewise the thousand year reign of Christ isn't literal, it's a reference to the default status quo after the cross - Christ reigns and the earth is His footstool. This too is ridiculous, as any child with a set of eyes can see that the world is getting systematically worse, not better, and certainly isn't bringing itself in line with His Kingship.
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