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Post by Jerome L on Feb 19, 2015 14:56:16 GMT
Is this person still saved?
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Post by Gr8tful on Feb 19, 2015 17:38:19 GMT
I would say it depends on their heart. Did they really, truly give their life to Christ, become a born again believer? If they did then yes, I believe they are saved. Only God knows the true heart of a man tho. If a person becomes an atheist after having a relationship w/the Lord, they would be as one who barely escaped the flames I would assume.
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Post by Jerome L on Feb 19, 2015 17:53:05 GMT
I would say it depends on their heart. Did they really, truly give their life to Christ, become a born again believer? If they did then yes, I believe they are saved. Only God knows the true heart of a man tho. If a person becomes an atheist after having a relationship w/the Lord, they would be as one who barely escaped the flames I would assume. Why do you believe God would allow someone into heaven who doesn't truly believe in God?
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Post by Gr8tful on Feb 19, 2015 18:16:11 GMT
Well, again, if they TRULY gave their life to Christ and were born again, they have become His child, adopted into the family. Fore whatever reason down the road, something brings about a hardening, doubting and unbelief. We all get to a point from time to time where we have unbelief, question things, etc. Some go further with it, usually it's something that happened that brought it on. IF you were at a place of questioning, doubting...and say you died. Do you think you would go to Heaven? OF course you would if you're His child. He knows we fail, He knows fall....and yet He loves us still, just as we are. Do you think He removes the blood of Christ off that person becuz of their turning back? Do you think He blots their name out of the Book of Life? He is our Abba Father...if a child rejects his family and goes off being just the opposite of the parents, do you think the family is going totally disown him/her completely? Such as the prodical son analogy. The father gave his son his inheritance and let him go do what he felt he need to do, which was to turn his back on the family and be just the opposite of them. Did the father disown him? No, he received him - an atheist may die before they can return - it doesn't mean it's too late. What if the prodical son died before making back home? Would the father disown him completely and have his name removed from the family line? I don't think so. Our God is a merciful, loving Father...not some mean abusive one just wanting for us to mess up - that's sad to even think that way.
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Post by Leeza on Feb 19, 2015 18:39:06 GMT
It depends on what you mean by "believe in God." James 2:19 says that even the devils also believe there is a God and tremble. But just because a person believes in God doesn't mean that they are saved. You become saved by recognizing that you are a sinner, and that Jesus died on the cross to pay the penalty of all sin. Once you ask Jesus into your heart and accept Him as Lord and Savior of your life, that is when you become saved.
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Post by Jerome L on Feb 19, 2015 18:49:14 GMT
Welcome to the forum, Jerome. Once you ask Jesus into your heart and accept Him as Lord and Savior of your life, that is when you become saved. If this person then becomes a Satanist and sacrifices children, is this person still saved?
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Post by Guest on Feb 19, 2015 18:49:43 GMT
Good answer,Leeza
I personally don't believe there is any such thing as an atheist.
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Post by Guest on Feb 19, 2015 18:54:29 GMT
That is beyond disturbing,Jerome.His soul is in the hand of God,but his life should be turned over to authorities.
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Post by Leeza on Feb 19, 2015 19:06:54 GMT
Thank you, Guest. Unfortunately, there are atheists, though, as it is written in Psalm 14:1: "A fool says in his heart there is no God."
Jerome, a saved person would never become a Satanist in the first place, so your argument is moot. When you are born again, as it is written in 2 Corinthians 5:17,"Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
A Christian is loyal to Christ, because we have a new nature.
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Post by Jerome L on Feb 19, 2015 19:09:25 GMT
Why should this Satanic child murderer be turned over to the authorities, when according to you, you will join him for all eternity in heaven?
A true Christian would never allow a Satanist into heaven who scarifies children, as you would dictate God should do.
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Post by Jerome L on Feb 19, 2015 19:15:08 GMT
Thank you, Guest. Unfortunately, there are atheists, though, as it is written in Psalm 14:1: "A fool says in his heart there is no God." Jerome, a saved person would never become a Satanist in the first place, so your argument is moot. When you are born again, as it is written in 2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." A Christian is loyal to Christ, because we have a new nature. Can someone be a true Christian and deny even one of Christ's teachings?
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Post by Gr8tful on Feb 19, 2015 19:17:08 GMT
Jerome, welcome btw. I don't believe you're really looking for answers so won't answer anymore of these kinds of questions. BUT, I will say you are not here by mistake. I am trusting that the Lord will bless you with opening yours eyes to Him and your heart to His truths. If these questions really matter to you have you looked in the Bible for the answers? Are you born again? What faith would you say you most resemble, as in Catholic, Baptist, 7th Day...? I ask because it would help to know what your belief is in order to help understand your questions.
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Post by Guest on Feb 19, 2015 19:21:07 GMT
Ok,is this shock value? What can God forgive and what can't He forgive? If this person is a sold out Satanist,I won't be looking for this person in heaven.If this person did repent,yes,I believe God would forgive him.
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Post by Gr8tful on Feb 19, 2015 19:27:23 GMT
Good answer Guest. Hope you join us soon.
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Post by Jerome L on Feb 19, 2015 19:28:10 GMT
[mod edit]
Rudeness and veiled threats will absolutely not be tolerated here. You've asked some valid questions. Good. Don't compromise that by speaking inappropriately.
"Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person."
- Colossians 4:6
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Post by Leeza on Feb 19, 2015 19:36:33 GMT
Satanists are not going to heaven. Neither are atheists. Only the true children of God who accept Jesus into their hearts. Jesus is the only way to heaven as it is written in John 14: 6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
You know what, Jerome? I don't think you are sincere and came here for honest answers. I think you are here to stir up strife. Like Gr8ful, I refuse to allow you to goad me into any more arguments, as it is written in Titus 3:9:
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
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Post by Guest on Feb 19, 2015 20:03:07 GMT
Just curious, how did you make peace with God?
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Post by Gr8tful on Feb 19, 2015 20:08:45 GMT
Jerome, since you haven't answered the questions and are just sadly lonely for attention, it says it all. Please know we're not here to argue or debate over things. Discuss stuff yes but not this round and round stuff. Whether you realize it or not, you obviously have a desire to know God or get to know Him otherwise you wouldn't be on sites like this. Sites that believe in the love, grace and mercy of God. Praying you find Him and accept that part of Him, He loves you even if you don't understand that completely. Unconditional love, it's an amazing thing.
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Post by shelayne on Feb 19, 2015 21:34:12 GMT
Jerome, I think your premise is faulty. No one, who is bought and paid for by the Blood of Christ is going to go to such an extreme as turning into a Satanist sacrificing children. Sorry, but that just a fallacious argument. Backslide, yes. Become a murderous Satanist, eating children for breakfast? No. Not without any mind-altering surgery or drugs that create psychosis. The Bible talks about it being impossible to actually denounce Christ, once His goodness has been truly experienced. When one "accepts" Christ, there must be evidence that his or her conversion was genuine. There will be fruit. The seed will be rooted and it will grow. A faith that does nothing, is not faith. It is the seed that falls between the cracks in the sidewalk that never gets watered or nourished and never survives. Someone may have "prayed the prayer", but without any change in heart, without any genuine desire to follow Christ and to be like Him, that prayer is just empty words. The Bible says that we die to self and become new creations in Christ. Do we still sin? Yes, unfortunately, we do. But we are no longer DEFINED by that sin. We are conflicted when we do sin, and convicted by the Holy Spirit to ask for forgiveness. IT does not give us pleasure to dishonor God in any way. Again, we can backslide. I did for 30-something years, but I never completely renounced Christ. I just tried to ignore Him. Even people who claim to have turned away from the faith and now claim to be Atheists will be brought back to the fold, if they ever were truly His. He will go looking for that wandering sheep and bring him home. That is what He does. It is possible that it won't happen until their very last breath, but it will happen. Will they still go to Heaven for living life as a self-proclaimed Atheist? Yes, they will. If they were bought for a price, they were BOUGHT for a price. They will no doubt miss out on rewards, and they will have not had that peace that surpasses all human understanding after they wandered away from the rest of the flock, but they will still be with Christ in the end. He promises that He will NEVER leave you or forsake you once you become HIS. Now, if they never were His, then they do not have that promise. We tend to look at things through the human perspective. We sift things through our own lens of "fairness". God does not. He looks at the Heart. He knows us better than we know ourselves, and we cannot fool Him. Someone, to us, that looks like they are an unbeliever, may not be so at all. Perhaps, they are struggling with questions, or are going through a "season of sin" as one friend described her foray into the wilderness. We don't know, and we can't know. That is why it is NEVER for us to judge who is saved and who isn't. We only know that in order to be seated in Heaven, we must give our lives to Christ. We must lay everything at His feet and tell Him we want Him to be our Lord and Savior. We must ask for forgiveness of our sins against Him and turn away from these sins. We must want the Heart of Christ. Someone who has pledged their life to Satan and is sacrificing children never ever desired the Heart of Christ. His faith never took root, and He was never reborn as a New Creation.
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Post by Benjamin on Feb 20, 2015 1:22:13 GMT
Reading down through this thread, I had an answer mentally prepared to put here. Shelayne's answer, however, puts perfectly and succinctly precisely the point that I was going to try to get across.
There are a couple of issues we face when discussing this type of question. The first is that we're human. We're fallible, we're bound by time, and we can't see the future, nor even remember the past as clearly as we would perhaps like. With that in mind, we'll never be able to make an honest judgment on the heart, mind, soul and spirit of another human being.
The second thing to remember is that... without the grace of Christ, we would ALL fall away. We talked in another thread a few days ago about the Holy Spirit - the question being "can you lose the Holy Spirit?". I commented on that - if it were left up to us, absolutely! ...but praise God, it ISN'T left up to us.
This is no different. If a person has come to Christ, has been regenerated by the Holy Spirit and received His indwelling, then it is impossible for Him to depart from them. He is the sign and seal of our salvation, and the means by which our regeneration and sanctification takes place. Will people still go through periods of hardship? Doubt? Even backsliding? Certainly - because we're all fallen and fallible - but we cannot lose the gift that was given - not because of our own wisdom, or our own ability to stay on the narrow path, but because of the nature of the One who gave that gift in the first place.
If a person, having been a 'Christian' turns around to become an atheist, or a professing Satanist, then you'd have to question whether they ever truly met Christ at all. When the apostles met Christ, they didn't just leave their nets behind temporarily. They didn't go back to fishing once Jesus ascended. They were changed PERMANENTLY. Irrevocably. Human nature may get in the way, and our own mortality might cloud our relationship with Him at times (even Peter and Paul argued over the observance of the law), but the gift of life in Jesus Christ, sealed by the Holy Spirit and confirmed by the Father, cannot be revoked.
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Post by shiloh on Feb 20, 2015 1:42:22 GMT
Hey, Benjamin. I didn't post on this thread at all, but this point you made is exactly what I think too:
You nailed that one.
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Post by Benjamin on Feb 20, 2015 1:44:56 GMT
...you didn't either. It was Shelayne's reply that I was referring to. What an excellent response.
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