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Post by Jerome L on Feb 20, 2015 3:49:02 GMT
For his Father?
A Father has two sons whom he commands both of them to go out and help him work in the field to harvest the crops. Both sons claim to love, respect and honor their Father, but, every time the father commands his sons to work out in the field, the oldest son refuses to obey his Father. Which son is showing more love, respect and honor for his Father? Which son should expect his father's blessings?
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Post by shelayne on Feb 20, 2015 4:17:17 GMT
Well looking through the lens of finite human perspective, we would think that only the son who obeys his father and works the crops would be "deserving" of the father's blessings.
Thankfully, our Father in Heaven doesn't operate in the finite. He knows our course from before we were born. And His Grace is enormous. Much more enormous than we can even comprehend. It is not about "who does more work gets more brownie points". It is only about Christ and Him crucified. It is not about what WE do; it is about what HE did. That is the beauty and the majesty of the Gospel of Christ. We cannot "good deeds" our way into His Grace; it is a free gift, available to everyone who seeks Him. It is unmerited favor. We are obedient, not because we are looking for blessings, but because we love Him. He gives blessings to us, not because we deserve it, but because He loves us. How unbelievably amazing is that kind of LOVE?
So for our Heavenly father, neither boy is "deserving" of His blessings. He will give His blessings because He loves them. It may not seem fair to us, through our fleshly perspective, but as I explained in your other thread, our Father doesn't look at "fair" and "unfair". He looks at the heart. Since in your analogy you said that both boys are His sons, then it means that both of them are children of God (only those born again in Christ Jesus are children of God, everyone else is a "creation" of God), and are equally deserving of His Grace. We need only count our own blessings, not anyone else's.
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Post by shiloh on Feb 20, 2015 5:46:34 GMT
This is the parable Jesus spoke of and many miss the point.
A Real Life Prodigal Son
Wednesday, July 24th, 2013 Once Saved Always Saved,
Salvation
Q. I have a friend who has gone after the sin nature completely, and I am worried that he will bring about his early death. He has left his wife to live with a younger woman overseas, and he has also taken to drinking too much alcohol. He is a born again Christian but has totally walked away from the life of church although he still believes in GOD and loves your ministry which has given him license to do what he is doing. He knows that all his sins are forgiven past present and future. He seems to have an “I don’t care” attitude and wants to just enjoy himself until Jesus returns. He is believing that the rapture will save him from his “sins”.
A. Your friend sounds to me like a real life version of the prodigal son, who took his inheritance and went off to live a life of depravity (Luke 15:11-32). In that parable Jesus showed that no matter how far astray we go we can never stop being our Father’s son and He will always welcome us back with open arms. (emphasis are mine).
Jesus said it is the Father’s will that He would not lose any of those who’ve been given to Him but will raise them up at the last day (John 6:38-40). He said no one can take us out of his or his father’s hands (John 10:27-30).
And Paul said that when we’re born again God Himself makes us stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set His seal of ownership on us and put His Spirit in our hearts as a deposit guaranteeing what is to come (2 Cor. 1:21-22).
Put it all together and you can see that even in our rebellion we are the Lord’s own child and there’s nothing anybody can do to change that. Your job is to intercede for your friend, praying that the Lord will turn him around quickly (1 John 5:16).
gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/a-real-life-prodigal-son/
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Post by Benjamin on Feb 20, 2015 9:18:42 GMT
I like both of those answers. It's pretty simple, really:
The young men are both sons of their father.
The disobedience of one doesn't void his sonship; that is his by birth, and no poor conduct can erase it. Likewise, the faithfulness of the elder doesn't enhance or add to his sonship either - it is his by birth, and no good works can earn it.
So it is with those who are in Christ.
We are called to good works - not because by doing so, we can earn our place in heaven, but because, having been made sons (when once we were not), we are called to live a life pleasing to God. We, like the sons in the parable, have been made sons of God through the blood of Jesus Christ - and that, "by grace, through faith - and that, not of ourselves, so that none may boast" - and that sonship, that birth, cannot be revoked, because we cannot be 'un'-born, and the sign and seal of the Holy Spirit will never be taken away.
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Post by Jerome L on Feb 20, 2015 14:03:11 GMT
How would you feel if the company/business you work for kept paying someone who refused to work, while you slaved away?
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Post by shelayne on Feb 20, 2015 14:43:35 GMT
I've actually been in that position, and it is irritating. Truthfully, though, it is none of my business. It is between that employee and whoever owns the company. I just need to do my job to the best of my ability, because whatever I do, I want to do it for the glory of the Lord, just as the Bible instructs.
Again, God doesn't look at things this way. You cannot earn favor. You cannot earn your way to heaven. It has NOTHING to do with anything you've done, but has EVERYTHING to do with what Christ has done FOR you. There is nothing you can do to take away His promises, once you become His. Even if you sit on your duff every day, while your brothers and sisters-in-Christ do all the "heavy lifting". We just need to be about the Father's business. That is our "job" on this side of Glory. Our job is not to decide who should be in His favor, but to be obedient to His will and His call on our lives.
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Post by Jerome L on Feb 20, 2015 17:46:08 GMT
As an employer, would you pay someone who refuses to work?
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Post by Guest on Feb 20, 2015 19:08:44 GMT
Not as an employer,as a father I would spank his little fanny. He would still be my son.
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Post by Guest on Feb 20, 2015 19:54:53 GMT
Let me make myself clear,please do not confuse works with responsibilities.
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Post by shelayne on Feb 20, 2015 20:25:29 GMT
Not as an employer,as a father I would spank his little fanny. He would still be my son. Guest is exactly right. God is not our employer; He is our Father. |
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Post by Benjamin on Feb 20, 2015 23:04:31 GMT
The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard
“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.
“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’
7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.
“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’
8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’
9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’
13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”
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Post by Jerome L on Feb 21, 2015 1:52:43 GMT
Let me make myself clear,please do not confuse works with responsibilities. Nowhere in this topic did I mention anything about works. |
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Post by Benjamin on Feb 21, 2015 2:33:57 GMT
As an employer, would you pay someone who refuses to work? Side-stepping into "responsibilities" does not change the fact that there is a clear distinction in Scripture between grace and works, and a line between that Scripture simply does not cross. You cannot earn salvation. It's that simple. If you want to talk about who shows more honour to the Father, then you're talking about rewards - and there are 'crowns' spoken of in Scripture that pertain to that. However, those rewards do not impact upon salvation in any way, shape or form. |
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Post by Jerome L. on Feb 21, 2015 2:49:01 GMT
As an employer, would you pay someone who refuses to work? Side-stepping into "responsibilities" does not change the fact that there is a clear distinction in Scripture between grace and works, and a line between that Scripture simply does not cross. You cannot earn salvation. It's that simple. If you want to talk about who shows more honour to the Father, then you're talking about rewards - and there are 'crowns' spoken of in Scripture that pertain to that. However, those rewards do not impact upon salvation in any way, shape or form. Are you willing to chance your eternal destiny on that? Nowhere in the Bible are we commanded to not work out our salvation with fear and trembling. |
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Post by Benjamin on Feb 21, 2015 3:52:31 GMT
Am I willing to chance my eternal destiny? No, I'm not - that's actually why I came to Christ in the first place. I came to Christ because my eternal destiny is secure with HIM, and isn't something that I could ever earn or secure myself. I know that well. The book of Romans beats this particular horse until it's dead - reiterating over and over and over that our salvation is by grace, through faith in the sacrifice of Christ - that our salvation is due to His life in us, and nothing in and of ourselves, so that none can boast. In terms of 'fear and trembling', this says it better than I could: This text is often misused to instill fear into people, warning them that it means that they can lose salvation. What does it mean to work out our salvation with fear and trembling? Paul can hardly be encouraging believers to live in a continuous condition of nervousness and anxiety. That would contradict his many other exhortations to peace of mind, courage, and confidence in the God who authors our salvation. The Greek word translated "fear" in this context can equally mean "reverence" or "respect." Paul uses the same phrase in (2 Corinthians 7:15) where he refers to Titus as being encouraged by the Corinthians’ reception of him “with fear and trembling,” that is, with great humility and respect for his position as a minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul himself came to the Corinthian church in “weakness and fear, and with much trembling” (1 Corinthians 2:3), mindful of the great and awesome nature of the work in which he was engaged.
The sense in which we are to work out our salvation in fear and trembling is twofold. First, the Greek verb rendered “work out” means "to continually work to bring something to completion or fruition." We do this by actively pursuing obedience in the process of sanctification, which Paul explains further in the next chapter of Philippians. He describes himself as “straining” and “pressing on” toward the goal of Christlikeness (Philippians 3:13-14). The “trembling” he experiences is the attitude Christians are to have in pursuing this goal—a healthy fear of offending God through disobedience and an awe and respect for His majesty and holiness. "Trembling" can also refer to a shaking due to weakness, but this is a weakness of higher purpose, one which brings us to a state of dependency on God. Obedience and submission to the God we revere and respect is our “reasonable service” (Romans 12:1-2) and brings great joy. Psalm 2:11 sums it up perfectly: “Serve the LORD with fear and rejoice with trembling.” We work out our salvation by going to the very source of our salvation—the Word of God—wherein we renew our hearts and minds (Romans 12:1-2), coming into His presence with a spirit of reverence and awe.Read more: www.gotquestions.org/fear-and-trembling.html#ixzz3SLe4N1ZF |
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