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Post by elizabeth on Feb 3, 2014 17:17:48 GMT
C. H. Spurgeon
February 3
He Freely Gives
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? (Romans 8:32)
If this is not a promise in form, it is in fact. Indeed, it is more than one promise, it is a conglomerate of promises. It is a mass of rubies, and emeralds, and diamonds, with a nugget of gold for their setting. It is a question which can never be answered so as to cause us any anxiety of heart. What can the Lord deny us after giving us Jesus? If we need all things in heaven and earth, He will grant them to us: for if there had been a limit anywhere, He would have kept back His own Son.
What do I want today? I have only to ask for it. I may seek earnestly, but not as if I had to use pressure and extort an unwilling gift from the Lord's hand; for He will give freely. Of His own He gave us His own Son. Certainly no one would have proposed such a gift to Him. No one would have ventured to ask for it. It would have been too presumptuous. He freely gave His Only-begotten, and, O my soul, canst thou not trust thy heavenly Father to give thee anything, to give thee everything? Thy poor prayer would have no force with Omnipotence if force were needed; but His love, like a spring, rises of itself and overflows for the supply of all thy needs.
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Becka
Numbers' Donkey
Spurgeon Addict
Posts: 169 
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Post by Becka on Feb 3, 2014 18:12:04 GMT
"If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it." ~John 14:14
Ah, the interpretation of this verse! Love it.
Another:
"For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefore also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us." 2 Corinthians 1:20
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Post by Benjamin on Feb 4, 2014 22:22:08 GMT
This is one of those odd passages in Scripture... using a literary device that Paul in particular seems to love.
I call them "now, but not yet" statements. We have "every blessing in the heavenly realms in Christ", yet we are still stuck in these sinful bodies, for example. So why can Paul say what he does? Simple....
It's a foregone conclusion.
We're on the winning team, and the contest isn't even CLOSE.
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Post by elizabeth on Feb 4, 2014 22:42:08 GMT
Thank you Benjamin for the term "now, but not yet" I love it. I think the way Paul wrote this infers it's not necessarily going to be a 'you ask for it, God provides it right away' kind of scenario. I think we can assume more, the way it is written, like perhaps time and trial to perhaps prepare us for what we are requesting, might be involved. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it.
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Post by Benjamin on Feb 4, 2014 22:53:51 GMT
I agree, but I think it's also a little more forward-thinking, too.
"Freely give us all things" isn't just talking about the here and now, it's talking about the time when we reign with Christ as "Kings and Priests". Literally, ALL THINGS on this earth will be ours, as we rule, live and breathe with Him in His glory. That's definitely something to look forward to.
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Post by elizabeth on Feb 4, 2014 23:06:31 GMT
Benjamin, looking at it again, I think you are right, but I still think it has the earthly component. Opinions welcome, I love these kinds of discussions.
Elizabeth
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Becka
Numbers' Donkey
Spurgeon Addict
Posts: 169
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Post by Becka on Feb 4, 2014 23:30:54 GMT
God gives us anything that's within His will to give. In other words, these verses have been twisted by the prosperity gospel teachers who believe praying for a shiny car or a raise at work is what these are talking about. No wonder people become disillusioned when God doesn't "answer"! So I do believe these verses aren't meaning to make God into our own personal "God in a bottle" fulfilling our will and desire, but rather, when we begin to pray for HIS will and HIS desires, the blessings of Heaven rain down.
When I refocused my prayer life away from what God could give me carnally to what He could give me spiritually, my sanctification really took off! What do I mean by that? Well, I didn't pray for my own wants, I started asking God to mold me into the Christian He wanted me to be. More faith, more love, more joy. More wisdom, more knowledge, more passion for the Word of God. These we KNOW are God's will for ALL believers, and Scripture has promised that these we shall have. Anything that aligns with His will is yes and amen.
So while the inheritance of creation is for after our glorification, anything we ask that aligns with His will is ours in the here-and-now.
~~Becka
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Post by elizabeth on Feb 5, 2014 0:05:29 GMT
Becka, thank you for mentioning the prosperity gospel people. I agree, they were an abomination.
In the earthly sense, In the past, I always understood this text to mean immaterial, spiritual things - like the fruit of the spirit. In that way I am like you Becka. Years later, I find this also works materially. I tend to ask for genuine needs though, not unnecessary stuff.
As for the interpretation Benjamin noted, I can see that now. It's like a bright, wonderful promise there in the scripture, that I hadn't seen before.
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Post by Benjamin on Feb 5, 2014 1:58:03 GMT
I think that the church has done great damage to its members in this respect.
What I highlighted in that passage is in no way hidden - but more often than not, we don't think of it, because most Christians really don't have any kind of awareness in terms of what awaits us in future.
You are absolutely, wholeheartedly correct in looking at the "now" aspect of the verse - no question there - and Becka is absolutely right, God genuinely does offer us EVERYTHING in Christ. I think where many churches go wrong, and certainly where the prosperity gospel goes wrong, is in limiting Scripture to our current reality.
See, I think the prosperity gospel types have it right, to a point... what they have wrong is the TIMING. Does God wish to bless us physically and materially too? Absolutely! And in one sense, He already has - we have "every blessing in Christ in the heavenly realms". We have everything we could ever possibly want. The Psalmist says "I shall not want", and he means it - but like so many things in Scripture, this is "now, but not yet". We have every blessing NOW, but the complete fulfilment of that promise comes later, with a new heavens and a new earth, and with that, the prosperity that so many look for in the here and now.
So why "now, but not yet"? Because in our current state, prosperity is a DISTRACTION. "How hard it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven!", Jesus says. In this life, at this time, in this physical body, the blessing of prosperity becomes a curse, because we, as humans, are prone to idolatry.
This is why the prosperity gospel gets it wrong... because we need to enthrone Jesus Christ in our lives now, and the rest? The rest will come when He is ready.
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Becka
Numbers' Donkey
Spurgeon Addict
Posts: 169
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Post by Becka on Feb 5, 2014 3:18:34 GMT
You know what I've found in my own walk? That God knows what I need, and if I focus my attentions and affections on Him, pursuing Him, and knowledge of Him, the things that I need just fall into place. I rarely have to pray about them. And the great thing about it is that things I *want* are included as well. Not everything, mind, I'm sure God isn't a Father who spoils us - dotes, perhaps, but spoils, not so much. But I have been floored how often I turn around and God gives me something I've wanted, or makes the circumstances all work together to get me what I've wanted. I have definitely seen the promise of Psalm 37:4 fulfilled in my own life, many times over.
~~Becka
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Post by morningstar on Feb 5, 2014 3:44:17 GMT
Becka, that is absolutely the Truth, it's wonderful the way the Lord works isn't it?...I rarely ever pray for anything for myself, except Wisdom in understanding His Word. Thanking Him each day for my health so I can continue to be able to care for my son & Grandchildren (Daughter-in-Law went home to be with the Lord 2012). He blesses us more than we realize in so many ways if people would take the time to see the value of what He has given them.
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Post by elizabeth on Feb 5, 2014 4:57:45 GMT
I think it is so important to be grateful. That's one of the most valuable lessons I have learned.
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Post by shiloh on Feb 5, 2014 20:44:48 GMT
Good thread, Elizabeth. I have never read this one before and I agree with everyone above. We get our needs met on earth by looking to the Lord but some are future, also.
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Post by elizabeth on Feb 5, 2014 22:01:49 GMT
Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread. It's so interesting to learn other peoples views, and to learn.
Elizabeth
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