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Post by morningstar on Feb 17, 2014 15:41:12 GMT
Very interesting article.
Christian Post Born That Way? New Research on 'Gay Genes' Raises New Questions, Few Answers
By Napp Nazworth, Christian Post Reporter February 14, 2014|4:31 pm
Are gays born that way? New research presented Thursday at the American Association for the Advancement of Science in Chicago looks at this question.
The findings were presented by Michael Bailey, a Northwestern University psychologist who has been sharply criticized by both conservatives and the LGBT community in the past for his research, writing and classes.
He reported that his research shows, according to The Telegraph's science correspondent Sarah Knapton, that some gay men share certain genetic characteristics on a region of the X chromosome called Xq28.
The study could not determine which genes in the Xq28 region seemed to have an impact on same-sex attraction. Those with this genetic signature had about a 40 percent of chance of identifying themselves as gay.
Not all gay men have the genetic marker and not all those with the genetic marker are gay. This finding is consistent with prior research that also suggests genetics might play a role in same-sex attraction, but the role is not determinative.
www.christianpost.com/news/born-that-way-new-research-on-gay-genes-raises-new-questions-few-answers-114651/
Fair Use for Discussion & Educational Purposes
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 16:38:39 GMT
Does it really matter for us Christians? It's sin either way, be it inherited somehow or a corruption of the flesh at some point pre-birth or post-birth.
Thankfully us Christians can be reborn with a different mindset regarding our sins.
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Post by morningstar on Feb 17, 2014 16:51:55 GMT
Your absolutely right BJ, everyone is born with sin, no matter which direction it takes, and Christ gave us the Pardon through His Shed Blood opening the way of Salvation for all who will accept it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 18:10:58 GMT
Sodom, for the sake of 10, the Lord would have spared the city. Only when the men of Sodom force their wickedness, the righteous were removed, and judgment ensued. A good picture of the rapture, look out America.
An unrepentant heart leaves the Lord no choice...
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Post by shiloh on Feb 18, 2014 2:27:05 GMT
Oh, I completely agree with you all! There ARE evil ways being forced upon us all and violence is everywhere. It's terrifying to even watch the local news here and hearing of unspeakable crimes that one can't even fathom. All governments are all extremely corrupt also, but God sees in secret.
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Post by MyWhiteStone on Feb 18, 2014 5:49:50 GMT
I know practically nothing about genetics, genes, and chromosomes, but since it says above, "...Those with this genetic signature had about a 40 percent of chance of identifying themselves as gay," isn't that the same as saying that 60% of humans with this Xq28 gene would fail to identify themselves as gay. It doesn't seem like an open and shut case, and suggests to me the opposite of the Xq28 conclusion that's being suggested.
So, here's a question: is any sexual attraction of any kind purely a result of human physiology, chromosomes, genes, chemicals, and / or various physical bodily processes, thereby having nothing whatsoever to do with a human being's spirit or soul?
I'm not sure I would even know how to debate such a question, but the physicality of some complex gene or chromosome seems to lead many a materialist to their preferred proof. So they can conclude, "It's simply how people were born. They genetically can't help it. They wouldn't choose the struggle, would they? They are obviously at a social disadvantage because they quite simply have to turn out as their externally programmed genes dictate. Therefore these individuals are absolved from society's unjust imposition of a difficult standard that causes an associated struggle."
I wouldn't debate it, but based on my own observation and experience and belief in the Divine, I do assert my strong belief that the soul and spirit of every physical human is inextricably involved in every sexual attraction whatsoever.
A materialist is most likely to argue there are no such things as souls and spirits, and thereby immediately vanquish in their own minds an issue about human culpability against some arbitrary standard dreamed up and passed along by the majority of humans a long time ago who were ignorantly cursed by unjust social restrictions.
Balderdash, I say! (whatever that means...)
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Post by shiloh on Feb 18, 2014 6:08:57 GMT
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Post by MyWhiteStone on Feb 18, 2014 13:38:44 GMT
No, I didn't see Greasy Grace, Shiloh. Thanks.
I guess my hot button is society's godless adoption and dissemination of excuses for not only declaring sexual sin to be unavoidable, but actually "celebrating" the freedom such godless standards naturally lead to. I'm not jealous about their freedom, I'm simply sad (maybe indignant) that my grandchildren in particular have to be exposed to this toxic environment. It's now a cesspool that I did not have to swim in or even be exposed to growing up, thank God.
Greasy grace is a good enlightening term relevant to the effectiveness of salvation because we truly can't help having been born into a sin nature, and I get it, and bigotry and self-righteousness are sins from which Jesus saves us too; but this world's freedoms from and excuses for not enforcing personal sexual restrictions is at least devastating the world we live in.
God, whom most sexual-freedom seekers discount or even define as irrelevant, has set obedience to law as His standard, even though by grace He is willing to cut us amazing, and at times unbelievable slack, as we fail again and again to obey. But our society is pursuing and celebrating a Psalm 2 shedding of their perceived fetters and bonds. “Let us break their chains and throw off their shackles.” It's disgusting to me that this godless society is intentionally perverting our youth and being so successful at it.
This is not about being judgmental -- a valid taboo for sure -- but society's sexual license and excuses, including an argument that the problem is entirely a predetermined genetic situation, have been for my own family an amazing generator of serious ongoing personal heartache, way beyond any scope common in my generation [and I promise I'm an old fogy]. I'm not being judgmental. I just want it to be over. And until it actually is over, mitigation is worthwhile, even if only at a personal and not societal level.
There's no pleasure in telling your son or daughter things like, "See! I told you so! The Bible told you so. What did you think I was trying to warn you about?" Now the grandchildren are coming to an age of significant risk and are exposed to society's lies as if they were truths. And I hate it worse than ever, and I suppose I may appear more judgmental / less tolerant. Truth and standards need to be not only aired in the public discourse, but emphasized. And concepts that actually include soul and spirit, and therefore culpability, are indeed relevant, even dominant.
Oh well. The family members have their own scars. And God still heals.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2014 18:14:38 GMT
StillGuessing, that was well said !
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Post by shelayne on Feb 18, 2014 21:23:58 GMT
I'm still saying that this study is very questionable. The real study that was done a while back proved that in order for this to be biological in nature, then both identical twins would be homosexual. This was not the result, as there were 50% or less documented cases of the identical twin possessing the same trait. I read Bringing up Boys by Dr. Dobson a while back, and he addressed the issue of gender confusion being sited so early in children which makes it "appear" as if this were inborn. He said that somewhere around 18 months old, the little boy lets go of wanting to be like Mommy, to wanting to be like Daddy, as he begins to identify with Daddy as being the same as he is. When Daddy is absent, neglectful, or even diminished (the weaker of the couple, possibly "henpecked") then the male child doesn't have that person to emulate or identify with, so he turns back to mommy. He said of some 800 homosexual men he interviewed, there was one of those situations prevalent in the childhood home- or they had been sexually abused- in every single interviewee. I thought that was really interesting. His studies showed it's the relationship or lack thereof with a strong father figure that leads to a lot of gender confusion. Little boys need a "big" man to show them how to be a little man.
And even if there were some sort of "gene" discovered that proved this to be innate, it changes nothing. Predisposition to sin does not make it OK. If one is Christian and struggling with same-sex attraction, that is no different than me and my selfishness, or my deceit, or my vanity. OR one of many I could rattle off (feel free to stop me. . The difference SHOULD be that the Christian struggling with SSA would not want to succumb to it. That he or she would want to abstain and seek after God, knowing that this is not part of His plan for them, just as it was not His plan for me to be a "fornicator". The "Christian" that wants to be identified by that sin, and whose identity is wrapped around that sin, does need to examine their heart and see if he is truly redeemed. Before we were saved by grace we were drunkards and fornicators and swindlers, and gossips, and yes, some homosexuals. But as Paul clearly says in Corinthians, "That is what some of you WERE..." Once you become washed in the Blood of Christ, you are no longer defined by that sin. You are now perfect in the eyes of God, because He sees Christ when you go before Him. He does not see that sin. As followers and lovers of Christ, we SHED that old man and become NEW creations. Our sanctification is a daily process, but we keep plugging away because we love God and we abhor sin. This is the freedom of Christ, that we are no longer held captive by sin, as we surrendered it to Christ and it was crucified with Him on the cross. Yes, we struggle with it in our daily walk, some days waaaaaaay more (did I say waaaaaaay more?) than others, but sin no longer binds us. I think about that sometimes and am just FLOORED! No matter what heinous thing I have done, it does not define me. I am a child of the KING! And that will NEVER change! Praise be to the Lord of lords!
Thank You, my precious Lord! Thank You for freeing me! Thank You for Your Grace and Your Mercy! Thank You for Your immeasurable, unending LOVE!
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Post by elizabeth on Feb 18, 2014 22:10:33 GMT
Christians largely condem gay people to a lonely life. Heterosexuals, none of us could change our sexual identity to sleep with the same sex. So, if we know that we couldn't change, why do we have so little compassion for a group of people who also cannot change.
That said, I do believe that the Lord will deliver people from homosexuality also. Christians should study the cross to understand deliverance.
Shelayne, I like what you wrote, and Shiloh, thank you for posting Queasy Grace.
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eben
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Post by eben on Feb 19, 2014 4:21:10 GMT
Here is my understanding: many people say they were born that way because they have were already cursed from the day they were conceived. Connect these two verses:
Only GOD is to be worshiped and nothing or no one else. Worship someone or something else and we shall be cursed. I believe it is that straightforward. It is a tough truth but it is what it is. Praise God though that He is longsuffering and full of mercy.
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Post by shiloh on Feb 19, 2014 4:44:11 GMT
I understand what everyone is saying here. I agree with Elizabeth though because I thinks we shun some because of their sin while others have sins of the mind and hide them well. So, who do I judge? Do we judge the ones sins that are evident and no one else's? Do I judge them by MY standards? I don't want anyone flaunting their sin in my face or forcing me or my children to accept their sin and ask for my blesings (much of the GLBT is militant now), as much as I wouldn't force them to accept mine or become militant and insist that they must accept my sin. I believe it IS possible to love the sinner yet hate the sin. I believe their is a huge difference between willful sin and being proud of it than in besetting sin. Jesus came to save the lost and too often, those who are reaching out and struggling with their sin/s are rejected by the church. It reminds me of the parable of the Pharisee and the publican who both went to the temple to pray. I know many who are humble, ashamed and hate their sin and that doesn't just include homosexuality.
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Post by elizabeth on Feb 19, 2014 5:09:52 GMT
Shiloh, you said it so well here:
Jesus came to save the lost and too often, those who are reaching out and struggling with their sin/s are rejected by the church. It reminds me of the parable of the Pharisee and the publican who both went to the temple to pray. I know many who are humble, ashamed and hate their sin and that doesn't just include homosexuality.
The parallel to the parable of the Pharisee and the Publican is so apt.
Christ loved the lost, the sinners. We are to do the same.
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Post by MyWhiteStone on Feb 19, 2014 5:21:03 GMT
I hope I say this clearly enough, Shelayne, so that you know how deeply your words moved me to praise Him when you said, "Thank You, my precious Lord! Thank You for freeing me! Thank You for Your Grace and Your Mercy! Thank You for Your immeasurable, unending LOVE!" It was kind of like a deep but soft emotional explosion. I don't know if everyone posting on this forum resonates with deep gratitude, although I suspect most of us do. And it's only by His grace and mercy gladly granted us. I wish everyone in the world could feel that Awesome and Freeing Character of the Father through the mercy of He and His Son Jesus. Maybe such deep gratitude will typify our attitudes in Glory, maybe aided for perspective by our own distant recollections of our desperate need for pardon... Anyway, thanks for revealing your heart for a few moments. His Spirit rewarded me through your expression. Tissue? Sniff! Honk!
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Post by shelayne on Feb 19, 2014 13:35:24 GMT
All praise and glory to the ONE who saves us! He is so worthy of all our praise, and I need to be mindful of that at all times! YES, it overcomes me and makes me weep as well, SG, so I know what you mean! Thank you for sharing YOUR heart! And yes, please pass the tissues.
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Post by MyWhiteStone on Feb 19, 2014 15:10:03 GMT
That new hairdo is nice. A wig maybe?
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Post by shiloh on Feb 19, 2014 16:12:36 GMT
Shelayne wrote: That "feel free to stop me" really cracked me up, Shelayne. I would list mine too, but I don't have any. (j/k)..
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Post by elizabeth on Feb 19, 2014 18:10:38 GMT
StillGuessing, I agree with you, it is lovely to come across sentences of thanks and praise to God,in a post. And Shelayne, you now have an avatar picture, good for you, it has hair, a big smile, and everything.
Shiloh, you just make me laugh.
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Post by shelayne on Feb 19, 2014 21:01:36 GMT
Yeah, I figured it was time to retire ole baldy, lest you all begin to believe I am a Sinead O'Connor wannabe. Hee hee! Elizabeth, I picked the big smile, because I laugh. A lot. And sometimes not at the most appropriate times. One thing the Lord gave me is a very quick wit. As "Monk" says, "It is a blessing. And a curse."
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