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Post by Jon1 on Feb 19, 2014 2:18:50 GMT
So I got the Harbinger last month and I read it in two nights, pretty good read.
I am interested to hear other opinions on this book and the connections it makes. I have researched some of the facts, not all, and the book does seem to be pretty spot on. There may be some stretching of the truth, I didn't research everything, and if so please feel free to point them out.
For those who haven't read it, the author, Jonathan Cahn, is a messianic Jew. HE doesn't make outlandish claims of being a prophet, etc. In the book he lays out facts showing that America is going through the same signs, or harbingers, that Israel did before they were judged by God. His theory is that 9/11 was the beginning of the lowering of the hedge of protection by God. Seven years later in 2008, the crash happened and Americas was given a major warning. His theory is that before or around Sept 2015, America will fall, most likely economically, and to a degree that it will mean the end of the country.
The seven year periods are Biblically accurate when speaking of the judgment of Israel. These periods DO seem to be following that model perfectly for the USA. I can't believe that the years are coincidence, the odds are just too amazing. For me it is like someone saying that all the blood moons falling on Jewish feast dates is coincidence. Really?
Just looking to see if anyone has read this book, and if so, what did you think?
PS. This is Jon, I just had to use Jon1 as a guest log in because it wouldn't let me log in for some reason : ) |
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Post by morningstar on Feb 19, 2014 2:51:25 GMT
Jon, I have read the "Harbinger", and I agree with the author, there are some parallels between the U.S. & Israel, for this nation was founded under God, and I believe that it was to be a sanctuary for the Jew's fleeing from the pogroms & persecutions in other countries, and I believe that it is one of the reason's the Lord has blessed this Nation. We are seeing the disintegration of the U.S. presently and part of this is because of our actions towards Israel amongst other things (morality, corruption e.t.c). You will find that in the Christian community you will have those that criticize this book, but I have found their criticism invalid. You might want to read this article by Dr. David Reagan (Lamb & Lion Ministries)
Those that are supportive of this book are, Chuck Missler, Jan Markell, Hal Lindsey, Bill Salus..to name a few. I for one thoroughly enjoyed it.
Article by Dr. David Reagan
www.lamblion.com/articles/articles_issues7.php
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Post by Jon1 on Feb 19, 2014 3:08:31 GMT
Jon, I have read the "Harbinger", and I agree with the author, there are some parallels between the U.S. & Israel, for this nation was founded under God, and I believe that it was to be a sanctuary for the Jew's fleeing from the pogroms & persecutions in other countries, and I believe that it is one of the reason's the Lord has blessed this Nation. We are seeing the disintegration of the U.S. presently and part of this is because of our actions towards Israel amongst other things (morality, corruption e.t.c). You will find that in the Christian community you will have those that criticize this book, but I have found their criticism invalid. You might want to read this article by Dr. David Reagan (Lamb & Lion Ministries)
Those that are supportive of this book are, Chuck Missler, Jan Markell, Hal Lindsey, Bill Salus..to name a few. I for one thoroughly enjoyed it.
Article by Dr. David Reagan
www.lamblion.com/articles/articles_issues7.php Hey Morningstar, I agree. And that is so cool that you posted an article by Dr. Reagan, he is the guy who got me into prophecy as a young boy! I was just now reading some rumors about Yellowstone. Some folks are pointing to a really soon eruptio n based on the recent activity. That would be the end of America for sure...I wonder. |
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Post by morningstar on Feb 19, 2014 3:23:14 GMT
Personally, I don't think an eruption in Yellowstone will happen soon, probably during the Tribulation, I may be wrong, but I see other factors in play as to the demise of America.
I heard of this before a few years back about Yellowstone and they said then what they are saying now about an eruption, so I don't pay too much attention to the rumors.
Although the weather phenomenon's are getting increasingly worse, but, I don't think we've seen anything yet, it's all building up to a crescendo with a soon breaking point.
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Post by MyWhiteStone on Feb 19, 2014 6:11:02 GMT
The Harbinger parallelisms relative to the arrogance of those in authority are striking, and Dr. Cahn makes a good case for those similarities. It is to me another significant data point among many supporting Daniel 7's references to the terrifying beast of the fourth kingdom. We're right smack in front of our eyes now facing that foretold evil arrogant godless regime. It's already terrifying and getting worse. So the Harbinger is one of many warnings from a God who cares.
I attended last July's Prophecy in the News Conference in Colorado Springs and heard Dr. Cahn speak. The only thing that bothered me was toward the end of his presentation the ardent and emotional message was "If my people who are called by my Name shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek My Face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins, and I will heal their land." I sat there praying silently during his exuberant wistful prayer for our nation, responsively with the audience. I began asking God to forgive me for wanting things to be over rather than for the USA to be healed. I want the poison of this world's evil regime gone once and for all. I want that promise Dr.Cahn quoted to be fulfilled in God's people, whom He has chosen, the Jews, and exactly as and when He has planned. I sense many people, understandably, want the good old days to return again, but in my estimation, it's over. It's imagining a vain thing. This current evil world regime arrogantly destroys everything in its path, as Daniel put it, without having even the slightest desire for redemption. I want our Lord Jesus Christ to reign!
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Post by morningstar on Feb 19, 2014 14:47:19 GMT
SG, You said it well. I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place...knowing what we know in Prophecy and which way our nation is heading, and praying for the Lord's soon Return,I just feel it's too late for this nation to turn back to it's former biblically based foundation, and I am hearing the same from quite a few Biblical Scholars who feel we have now gone beyond the point of no return. I now pray for the Salvation of those who are Lost. I know people point to Nineveh and say, well they repented and were spared, and that is true, but it was ALL the people including the King who repented, and I just don't see that happening here. The course has been set and God's Words will be fulfilled we are in that time and season of His return. The Lord said to Watch...and we will know when He is even at the door..and I believe we are there. There's not much that will change my mind or convince me that we are not on the threshold of the Tribulation, the signs are all around us.
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Post by shiloh on Feb 19, 2014 19:53:24 GMT
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Post by shelayne on Feb 19, 2014 21:30:58 GMT
I read it last year and found it really compelling. If you don't have time to read the book, then I recommend finding the Isaiah 9:10 Judgment on Youtube and watching it. In it, Rabbi Cahm goes through the nine harbingers. That video is a little over an hour long, I think. But what is really good is Rabbi Cahn at last year's Presidential Inaugural Prayer Breakfast. This is powerful speaking and is well-worth the time.
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Post by morningstar on Feb 19, 2014 22:21:59 GMT
Shelayne, I have seen that video before and your are quite right it was a powerful speech. A few in my family and a few friends I know have read the book, and they thoroughly enjoyed it.
Some of the things he mentioned in his book about 9/11 were very interesting and I know that in some of the speeches made by our Government around that time were not just coincidental mutterings. What he is saying is true, any nation that repents and turns to God judgment will not fall on that nation. But, I just don't see this nation doing that, we can't say we haven't been warned. I guess we have to read the book to come to our own conclusions. I do recommend it.
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Post by shiloh on Feb 20, 2014 3:00:54 GMT
I won't argue with Dr. Reagan since he's the scholar and I'm not. However, I'm not going to hold my breath while expecting our nation to repent. I believe it's up to each individual to repent but I don't believe there will be repentance as a nation. If anything, we are moving further away from God and this nation increasingly celebrates sin. For this reason, I believe God is removing His protective Hand. Before the U.S. is utterly left to its ways, I believe the church will have been removed before God's protective Hand is fully removed.
We have removed God from the Pledge of Allegiance, from schools, from courts, from graduations, from football games, from the workplace..the list goes on and it's going to get worse. Bible believing, born again Christians, along with our beliefs are becoming an anomaly and more despised every day in this nation.
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Post by LS on Feb 20, 2014 3:11:11 GMT
 These folks and I agree with you, Shiloh (don't know why they're so happy about it though?)  |
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Post by shiloh on Feb 20, 2014 3:17:46 GMT
Hey, neighbor. I was going to say something seroius and I'm laughing so hard at that gif, I forgot what it was! lol
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Post by shelayne on Feb 20, 2014 3:28:25 GMT
I'm not holding my breath, either. We are floating around in the toilet bowl just waiting for the big flush.
Yes, that is an icky visual, but it is what it is. Bleeech.
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Post by morningstar on Feb 20, 2014 3:31:49 GMT
LS...LOL!!...that was really funny...
Shiloh, I hear what your saying,I wouldn't hold my breath also, and I couldn't agree more about the US not repenting, I think we have gone beyond that point. Not only that, like I had said, ALL the people all the way up to the President would have to repent in order for judgment not to fall on the US and I just don't see that happening. Even so, that doesn't mean we shouldn't be warned and that is exactly what J. Cahn is doing.... and not just him, but other Christian authors have written warnings to America,.....so we as a country are not without excuse.
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jon
Exodus Traveller
Posts: 32 
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Post by jon on Feb 20, 2014 3:40:01 GMT
Thanks for the responses all.
Shiloh, I agree with you. I have heard Dave Reagan talk many, many times on the subject, and I know he doesn't think that America will ever turn back to God.....the exact opposite, actually. He knows it is going to get worse and worse and then we will be snatched away. I believe he is in that hard place where he is praying for this country because it is the right thing to do, while in his mind he knows that this country is lost. Same thing that has been discussed in this thread.
I find the time frame in the book really interesting. The seven year judgement will come in Sept 2015. I think those of us watching for the return of Christ have been expecting the trumpet to sound at any second, and with all that is happening in the world, I think many if not most of us are almost in shock that we are still here. The 2015 timing is strange in that everything is building towards a crescendo, and that time frame seems pretty perfect for everything to come with Israel, the fall of this country, etc. Throw in the blood moons on the feast days and the evidence is more and more compelling.
I am of the mind that there likely will be a small gap of time between the Rapture and the beginning of the Trib. I kind of think we will be gone either in Sept 2014 or April 2015 and the Trib begins within the year after that. Toally JMO, it could be an hour from now (I hope : )
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Post by shiloh on Feb 20, 2014 4:08:51 GMT
I agree with that, Jon. I don't know why but I have always felt there would be a little bit of a time gap. Oh, Lord. Please let it be this year.
Either way, not to get off the topic of Jonathan Cahn's book, I don't see how America can possibly escape judgment at this point.
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Post by Benjamin on Feb 20, 2014 7:21:16 GMT
I haven't read the book, but I've seen the video, which covers all of the same main points that Cahn covers in "The Harbinger".
I definitely think there's merit to it.
The real difficulty, I think, is that people have had trouble differentiating between this idea that the US is a "New Israel" of sorts, and the very plain and real truth that these judgements, whether we like it or not, have occurred, and have occurred in a fashion congruent with what Scripture promised for Israel.
Does that make the US a type of "New Israel"? No, it doesn't - but what it does mean is that at one point in her history, God honoured the United States of America as a God-fearing nation. Perhaps even more frightening is the rapid descent from that position, and the judgement that has come along with it. There is no question: the USA is no longer a Christian nation, nor has it been for quite some time.
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Post by shiloh on Feb 20, 2014 17:32:18 GMT
I agree with that 100%, Benjamin. It is so different now from when I was small. I know the Mormons believe the U.S. is going to be the new Israel and that we'll prepare the way for the Lord. Where they get that idea or thinking from is beyond me...but then again, they also think that Jesus is Michael the archangel. Mormonism is nothing but another cult.
How does a 'religion' exclude the entire world?
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Post by MyWhiteStone on Feb 21, 2014 0:53:41 GMT
Here's a potentially relieving analogy about getting it over with -- which is hands-down my preference: Recall when you were really sick to your stomach and nausea was nearly crippling you and your head was spinning. It hurt. You grabbed the Alka Seltzer and took a big drink -- and immediately you bent over and it all left your gut. And straight away you felt much better. Our evil time now in history feels like the that sick sick sensation, and all we want is for it to stop hurting. The world will be bent over for about seven more years, more or less, until the world's 6,000 year old evil is purged at long last, and our new day dawns in the new creation. And we'll soon forget about how sick everyone was feeling.
I say, get out the Alka Seltzer, swill it down, and get on with the relief from the evil regime. The world could use Shelayne's swirly thing.
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