Post by Sweet T on Mar 12, 2014 21:30:54 GMT
Hello everyone,
I know that many of you may not like my viewpoint on the rapture. But i hope that you all will be open enough to at least read it and ultimately give me your replies and opinions of my viewpoint.
Everyone usually agrees that our stance in the timing of the rapture should not divide us.I agree.
All of my life i have been one of the strongest supporters of the pre tribulation rapture. In 2008 i got very interested in one of the things that Jesus said. Which was that even though we do not know the day or hour of the rapture. There would be some that are called "the good man of the house" that the Lord will give meat in due season. That means he will feed that person knowledge as the time is right.
After noticing this i got very interested in being one of the good men that watches. So i knew that Jesus also said whatever we want and ask in his name he will do it. So i begged to him to please give me this meat in due season to get my household ready. I did not waver any bit because i knew most certainly that this would be his will. Because out of everything i could have asked i chose to this above all. It also made sense to me that the ones he would feed knowledge would be the ones that asked.
When i asked this i had every intention that he would show me something just before the pre tribulation rapture came. But at the end of 2012. Four years later i believe i got some of my answer although it was super hard for me to accept because it went against everything i had ever believed or had been taught. So i hope you can understand how i feel right now.
What would you do if you ask something of Jesus and put 100% faith that he will do it because it is his will to give hidden knowledge to people that ask and also diligently seek him. Then one day it is like a light bulb came on and you start seeing things that made no sense to you before.
Would you just ignore what you now see and assume that you must have went crazy because there is no way that you could have been wrong all of your life? OR
Would you thank Jesus for revealing something to you even if others hardly can see it?
I have not in any way twisted or changed the Bible to get my belief. I never forced anything. I just patiently waited for 4 years and had faith to God to give me some knowledge that i did not have.
Some of what i have realized that kept me from seeing any different comes from none other than Matthew 24. This is the biggest dividing chapter among pre tribbers and post tribbers that there is. As i am sure you all are aware of. All of my life i just kept the one thing that i knew positively and that was that Matthew 24 was not for us gentiles but instead it was for Israel.
But exactly why i am so certain comes back to teaching. I have noticed that every big name prophecy teacher out there all say something like this "Be a berean don't just take our word for it study for yourself so that if you are ever asked why you believe in the rapture you can show them and not just blurt out because so and so said it, you need to know why you believe what you believe so study"
This is all great we really do need to do our own study. I support studying 100% but something else i have noticed is what the prophecy teachers say next that makes me wonder? I hear them almost always say this after urging us to study "just remember though whenever you do your study and you come to Matthew 24 keep in mind that this is not talking to you because it says the word ELECT and we know that the ELECT is Israel, if you don't keep this in mind you will be lead to believe that Matthew 24 is the rapture and really get side tracked"
Doesn't it seem strange a little bit that without keeping this ONE thing in mind then the prophecy teachers say we will believe different? The that means if you lose this one principle of thought then you will no longer be a pre tribber.
So since everyone knows for a fact that the ELECT is always Israel would that not mean if we found at least one verse that says the ELECT is US that are saved in Jesus then we may be missing something? Or at least we can not always assume that we are not what Jesus is speaking of in Matthew 24. Since that is our basis for excluding ourselves from Matthew 24.
Here is one place.
Romans 8
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's ELECT? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for US.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall TRIBULATION, or distress, or PERSECUTION, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Every one likes the promise we have that Jesus is sitting in heaven right now making intercession for US. Well would this not mean he is making intercession for Israel since they are the ELECT? Because it is the ELECT that can not have any charge laid against them for they are justified.
But there is one more group mentioned in Matthew 24: 29-31 that everyone teaches is Israel and i agree 100%. They are the TRIBES which we call the 144,000 and they MOURN when they look upon Jesus.
Revelation 7
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the TRIBES of the children of ISRAEL.
Now here is what Jesus said in Matthew 24
Matthew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the TRIBES of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Now notice the TRIBES are mourning when they see him split the sky open to come and get the ELECT.
They can't both be Israel or else you are saying Israel mourns while Israel is gathered.
The Bible tells us if we are in Jesus then whether we are Jew or Gentile we are ONE there is no difference. So i believe i have a case that the ONE is ELECT and the TRIBES will mourn when they see him. The TRIBES are sealed at the 6th seal so will they mourn at the 2nd coming? After being sealed?
Notice that Jesus spoke in future tense by using words like SHALL and FALL.
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days SHALL THE SUN be darkened, and the MOON SHALL not give her light, and the STARS SHALL FALL from heaven, and the powers of the heavens SHALL be shaken:
This is what Jesus says happens just before he comes to gather his ELECT and before the TRIBES see HIM and MOURN.
Now Notice that John writes in the present tense just as he sees it happen by using words like BECAME and FELL.
Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the SUN BECAME black as sackcloth of hair, and the MOON BECAME as blood;
13 And the STARS OF HEAVEN FELL unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Notice what happens next:
14 And the HEAVEN DEPARTED as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
I believe if this is what Jesus was describing then this where HEAVEN DEPARTED may mean that the sign of THE SON OF MAN just APPEARED and the TRIBES see him coming with the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
But going by the 6th seal everyone sees him. Notice.
15 And the KINGS of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, HID THEMSELVES in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the FACE OF HIM that sitteth on the THRONE, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH is COME; and who shall be able to stand?
That is NOT the 2nd coming either because he is sitting on the THRONE and NOT a horse like in Revelation 19. Still yet they see him and are terrified.
Also the KINGS are hiding under rocks but at the 2nd coming they are gathered to fight him.
Revelation 19
19 And I saw the beast, and the KINGS of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to MAKE WAR against HIM that sat on the HORSE, and against his army.
At the 6th seal everyone is taking as a thief and can only run and hide in terror. Because it was so unexpected and he is on the THRONE but at the 2nd coming he is on the HORSE coming for WAR and the KINGS are expecting him so they gather to meet him to MAKE WAR against him.
They are not surprised with the 2nd coming but expecting him.
Many teachers say the 6th seal is the 2nd coming when the world sees HIM. But it can't be because it was unexpected and also the 7th seal only STARTS the FIRST TRUMPET with all 7 trumpets still yet to go and 7 vials still yet to go.
Also at the 6th seal the TRIBES are sealed so Gods wrath will not hurt them. When the trumpets start.
Also John goes back to heaven to tell what happens in heaven after this 6th seal is opened and there appears a great multitude in heaven that can not be numbered and it was told to john these CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION.
That tells me that Jesus cuts the days of GREAT TRIBULATION SHORT for the sake of the ELECT or else they would all be killed and there would be no flesh left to save.
I have much more but i will stop here because what is the use if no one can not see what i see. Just please give me some replies so i will know if any of you can see what i see.
I know that many of you may not like my viewpoint on the rapture. But i hope that you all will be open enough to at least read it and ultimately give me your replies and opinions of my viewpoint.
Everyone usually agrees that our stance in the timing of the rapture should not divide us.I agree.
All of my life i have been one of the strongest supporters of the pre tribulation rapture. In 2008 i got very interested in one of the things that Jesus said. Which was that even though we do not know the day or hour of the rapture. There would be some that are called "the good man of the house" that the Lord will give meat in due season. That means he will feed that person knowledge as the time is right.
After noticing this i got very interested in being one of the good men that watches. So i knew that Jesus also said whatever we want and ask in his name he will do it. So i begged to him to please give me this meat in due season to get my household ready. I did not waver any bit because i knew most certainly that this would be his will. Because out of everything i could have asked i chose to this above all. It also made sense to me that the ones he would feed knowledge would be the ones that asked.
When i asked this i had every intention that he would show me something just before the pre tribulation rapture came. But at the end of 2012. Four years later i believe i got some of my answer although it was super hard for me to accept because it went against everything i had ever believed or had been taught. So i hope you can understand how i feel right now.
What would you do if you ask something of Jesus and put 100% faith that he will do it because it is his will to give hidden knowledge to people that ask and also diligently seek him. Then one day it is like a light bulb came on and you start seeing things that made no sense to you before.
Would you just ignore what you now see and assume that you must have went crazy because there is no way that you could have been wrong all of your life? OR
Would you thank Jesus for revealing something to you even if others hardly can see it?
I have not in any way twisted or changed the Bible to get my belief. I never forced anything. I just patiently waited for 4 years and had faith to God to give me some knowledge that i did not have.
Some of what i have realized that kept me from seeing any different comes from none other than Matthew 24. This is the biggest dividing chapter among pre tribbers and post tribbers that there is. As i am sure you all are aware of. All of my life i just kept the one thing that i knew positively and that was that Matthew 24 was not for us gentiles but instead it was for Israel.
But exactly why i am so certain comes back to teaching. I have noticed that every big name prophecy teacher out there all say something like this "Be a berean don't just take our word for it study for yourself so that if you are ever asked why you believe in the rapture you can show them and not just blurt out because so and so said it, you need to know why you believe what you believe so study"
This is all great we really do need to do our own study. I support studying 100% but something else i have noticed is what the prophecy teachers say next that makes me wonder? I hear them almost always say this after urging us to study "just remember though whenever you do your study and you come to Matthew 24 keep in mind that this is not talking to you because it says the word ELECT and we know that the ELECT is Israel, if you don't keep this in mind you will be lead to believe that Matthew 24 is the rapture and really get side tracked"
Doesn't it seem strange a little bit that without keeping this ONE thing in mind then the prophecy teachers say we will believe different? The that means if you lose this one principle of thought then you will no longer be a pre tribber.
So since everyone knows for a fact that the ELECT is always Israel would that not mean if we found at least one verse that says the ELECT is US that are saved in Jesus then we may be missing something? Or at least we can not always assume that we are not what Jesus is speaking of in Matthew 24. Since that is our basis for excluding ourselves from Matthew 24.
Here is one place.
Romans 8
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's ELECT? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for US.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall TRIBULATION, or distress, or PERSECUTION, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Every one likes the promise we have that Jesus is sitting in heaven right now making intercession for US. Well would this not mean he is making intercession for Israel since they are the ELECT? Because it is the ELECT that can not have any charge laid against them for they are justified.
But there is one more group mentioned in Matthew 24: 29-31 that everyone teaches is Israel and i agree 100%. They are the TRIBES which we call the 144,000 and they MOURN when they look upon Jesus.
Revelation 7
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the TRIBES of the children of ISRAEL.
Now here is what Jesus said in Matthew 24
Matthew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the TRIBES of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Now notice the TRIBES are mourning when they see him split the sky open to come and get the ELECT.
They can't both be Israel or else you are saying Israel mourns while Israel is gathered.
The Bible tells us if we are in Jesus then whether we are Jew or Gentile we are ONE there is no difference. So i believe i have a case that the ONE is ELECT and the TRIBES will mourn when they see him. The TRIBES are sealed at the 6th seal so will they mourn at the 2nd coming? After being sealed?
Notice that Jesus spoke in future tense by using words like SHALL and FALL.
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days SHALL THE SUN be darkened, and the MOON SHALL not give her light, and the STARS SHALL FALL from heaven, and the powers of the heavens SHALL be shaken:
This is what Jesus says happens just before he comes to gather his ELECT and before the TRIBES see HIM and MOURN.
Now Notice that John writes in the present tense just as he sees it happen by using words like BECAME and FELL.
Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the SUN BECAME black as sackcloth of hair, and the MOON BECAME as blood;
13 And the STARS OF HEAVEN FELL unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Notice what happens next:
14 And the HEAVEN DEPARTED as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
I believe if this is what Jesus was describing then this where HEAVEN DEPARTED may mean that the sign of THE SON OF MAN just APPEARED and the TRIBES see him coming with the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
But going by the 6th seal everyone sees him. Notice.
15 And the KINGS of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, HID THEMSELVES in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the FACE OF HIM that sitteth on the THRONE, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH is COME; and who shall be able to stand?
That is NOT the 2nd coming either because he is sitting on the THRONE and NOT a horse like in Revelation 19. Still yet they see him and are terrified.
Also the KINGS are hiding under rocks but at the 2nd coming they are gathered to fight him.
Revelation 19
19 And I saw the beast, and the KINGS of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to MAKE WAR against HIM that sat on the HORSE, and against his army.
At the 6th seal everyone is taking as a thief and can only run and hide in terror. Because it was so unexpected and he is on the THRONE but at the 2nd coming he is on the HORSE coming for WAR and the KINGS are expecting him so they gather to meet him to MAKE WAR against him.
They are not surprised with the 2nd coming but expecting him.
Many teachers say the 6th seal is the 2nd coming when the world sees HIM. But it can't be because it was unexpected and also the 7th seal only STARTS the FIRST TRUMPET with all 7 trumpets still yet to go and 7 vials still yet to go.
Also at the 6th seal the TRIBES are sealed so Gods wrath will not hurt them. When the trumpets start.
Also John goes back to heaven to tell what happens in heaven after this 6th seal is opened and there appears a great multitude in heaven that can not be numbered and it was told to john these CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION.
That tells me that Jesus cuts the days of GREAT TRIBULATION SHORT for the sake of the ELECT or else they would all be killed and there would be no flesh left to save.
I have much more but i will stop here because what is the use if no one can not see what i see. Just please give me some replies so i will know if any of you can see what i see.
