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Post by elizabeth on Mar 13, 2014 15:51:41 GMT
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Post by LS on Mar 13, 2014 21:48:40 GMT
So this gentleman has a ministry based on semantics? I've never seen one like that before. But I do recall some Christians years ago who used to correct me when I'd make a statement that wasn't a technically correct statement about the faith. Looking back, I guess I appreciate it because it made me more careful in choosing the right words to explain my faith, but it used to bug the heck out of me at the time because I knew that my heart was in the right place.
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Post by elizabeth on Mar 13, 2014 22:23:50 GMT
Jim, no one is saying your heart isn't in the right place. I apologize if this seemed like an exercise in semantics, but it regards what was written in the Bible. How you understand scripture is of key importance. I wouldn't dismiss it because it sounds nit picky. Don't listen to him, if he bothers you.  |
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Post by LS on Mar 13, 2014 22:33:27 GMT
LOL...Nooooo he doesn't bother me at all. I just find his ministry to be similar to the people who used to correct me in the words I'd used to describe my faith 30 years ago. They were right, he's right, but I kind of look at both at being the equivalent of the "grammar / spelling police" that you find in comment sections all over the World Wide Web. I was waiting for this big "Lie" which never really materialized. |
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Post by shiloh on Mar 14, 2014 3:40:07 GMT
The "spelling police"..lol....they'd be all over my case for not paying attention when I type and misspell. I also word things wrongly at times and it has nothing to do with where my heart is. If you are a person who picks on that, then you need to know the other person's heart and care less about their grammar.
Liz, this is in NO WAY knocking what you posted at all. Please know that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2014 4:07:09 GMT
Thanks, Elizabeth, interesting video. I guess I've always seen giving your life to Christ as being synonymous with the salvation experience in the sense that we are exchanging our filthy rags for Christ's clean ones which are whiter than snow. We are saying in essence that we cannot pay the penalty for our sins on our own, so we are relying on Christ's sacrifice for us on the cross in order to cleanse us. So in a sense, I see it as giving our lives to Christ because we cannot live the Christian life in our own strength so we have to rely on His atonement on the cross to wash us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
I will give my own salvation experience as an example of what I am talking about.
I will never forget it. I was 18 years old, and I was standing outside talking to my best friend. (And BTW, we are still friends to this day.) We were talking about random things, I don't remember our talking about the Lord at all. All of a sudden, out of the blue, I felt this heavy conviction...like the weight of everything that I've ever done all my life up to that point was on my shoulders and it was overwhelming to me. Now mind you, in the world's eyes, I was a pretty good kid. Obeyed my mother, tried my best not to cause her any trouble, and did well in school. I was obedient to authority, and cooperative with my teachers and polite to my elders. But at that moment, none of that mattered. All of a sudden I felt in my spirit every single lie that I told, every bad word that I ever uttered, and though it wasn't very often, every time I snapped at my mother.
Finally I couldn't take it any more. I just burst into tears. My friend looked at me in shock asked me what was wrong, and in between sobs I told her that I sinned so much in my life, I was afraid that God would never forgive me. She looked at me and said, "Of course He will! Just pray for forgiveness and ask Him into your heart." When I did, I felt a huge weight lifted off of me. I felt pure as snow. It was such a wonderful feeling! I was rejoicing inside. I remember that night writing in my diary, "I just got close to God today!!!" It took me years to understand about sanctification and justification, but I have no doubt in my mind that my salvation experience was real and everlasting. In my heart, on that day, I gave my life to Christ.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2014 4:20:28 GMT
Jim, like Shiloh, I had to smile at the "spelling police" comment, also. Sounds like you had some bad experiences there, but it is obvious that your heart was in the right place. Bummer when you were trying to share such an important message, your grammar was being corrected. That had to be frustrating!
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Post by shiloh on Mar 14, 2014 4:57:15 GMT
BEAUTIFUL testimony, Leeza. I love that! You KNOW when it's the Holy Spirit convicting, don't you? That is SO true. It's so simple, as you described. That's why I can't understand people who want to complicate the gospel and make the rules as in, "you have to do this and this and this etc." Sometimes, the more knowledge or 'heady' people are, the farther they get from the Lord and you can stand back and watch the law creeping into their theology.
I don't think I explained that very well, though. I don't mean biblical knowledge but man made rules and judgementalism starts to come in which leads to being Phariseeical. Is Phariseeical even a word? LOL.
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Post by intojoy on Mar 14, 2014 9:20:28 GMT
The difference between our faith and every other belief system is the difference between "advice" and "news". Yeshua didn't just come to give advice. He came to bear our debt, to pay for the penalty of our sins (the wages of sin is death), so that we could be free to forgive one another as he forgave us. Its not advice that is the message of the bible, but it is news, good news. The news that God has intervened on our behalf, and has provided forgiveness for our sins.
We are beings that need unconditional all accepting love. Our problem is that none of us know how to give this kind of love because all of our love is conditional in some way and is self serving. But God who is the embodiment of love, and who does not need love, became a willing sacrifice and gave his life as a ransom for sin. Why? Because we needed love. And so that we could receive the kind of love we as beings so desperately needed - unconditional, accepting love and so that we could become the kind of people he created us to be.
It's not what we can do for God but what He has done for us. He entered "our world," He took on
"our humanity," He bore "our sins," He died "our death, "He was resurrected for "our life," He's coming again for "our glorification."
Paul in his letter to the Romans is urging us on the basis of all that he taught on, on the basis of all that has been done, he urges us to become living sacrifices:
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (Romans 12:1, 2 KJV)
If we have not understood all that the mercies of God has done, if we have not understood doctrinally and theologically deep enough, all that Messiah has accomplished for us, then we have become useless to him. God is calling us to live our lives as living sacrifices unto him. Our problem is, we are so prideful that we are not willing to give up anything for others. When a sacrifice was laid upon the altar there was a great deal of suffering involved, the animal experienced pain and suffering. What are we willing to give up? What are we willing to place upon the altar? So that we can become a blessing to others, and become servants of the Most High God?
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Post by elizabeth on Mar 14, 2014 15:44:31 GMT
Leeza, thank you for your testimony. It was nice to see you posting, we haven't seen you for a few days.
I don't know how to defend my position without making you all think I'm the world worst nit pick. Perhaps I am.
I care about the Word because the bible says,
(Joh 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
I care about bible translations. Just a week ago, we were debating on the forum the way a bible translation was subtly changing meaning by wording changes.
When talking about my faith, and what God has done in my life, it is important to me to be as accurate as possible. It is important to me to understand as best I can.
Also, facts build on facts. If there is a weak building block on the bottom, there will be problems later on. What I say, and how I think about God is important throughout the whole process.
Sorry I don't know how to explain it any better.
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Post by LS on Mar 14, 2014 16:11:16 GMT
Hi intojoy, you said,
Uh...I'll disagree with that statement. I'm not suggesting that we become lax in our desire to grow deeper in the faith, but I find the above statement a bit extreme. Kind of like the old saying about a person becoming too heavenly minded for any earthly good. People like the guy in the video are a huge turn-off for not only myself, but a lot of folks I know as well ... especially unbelievers.
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Post by elizabeth on Mar 14, 2014 16:38:55 GMT
Intojoy, I have the same problem LS has with your last paragraph.
New Christians are still used by the Lord, even it they have not yet learned much about their faith. Hopefully in time they will understand it better.
I also have a problem with this:
The Lord asks nothing of us. That's what makes Christianity different from all other religions. It is all grace. Works will follow our faith naturally, but we should not be concerned with them. After all they are the works the Lord is doing through us.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2014 18:47:09 GMT
IntoJoy, I do have to agree with Jim (LS) and Elizabeth's assessment of what you said. I also had a problem with this part, also.
Sounds like a RC doctrine....kind of like, "What are you willing to give up to the Lord for Lent?" I see it more along the lines of giving to others through the love of the Lord Who is flowing into our hearts. That is only possible through the power of the Holy Spirit flowing through us in order for the principles of 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 to be applied in our lives. We need to abide in the Vine in order to be able to do that. Once you have the love of the Lord flowing in your life for others, then "pride" will no longer be an issue. Then you will have the desire in your heart to want to do things pleasing to the Lord, and will be open to areas in your life that He wants you to "place on the altar" so to speak.
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Post by intojoy on Mar 14, 2014 22:30:33 GMT
Thanks. I'll try to rephrase this as I've shared it before and gotten similar remarks.
Paul who at that point in his letter (IMObservation) says "therefore" meaning everything he had expounded upon earlier, therefore by the mercies of God I beseech you...
I'm trying to say this, that if I fail to understand all that Christ accomplished for me by dying my death, I am still thinking I by being good am going to somehow gain God's approval, His favor. I believe God's approval and favor are already given to me. They have been given to me beyond measure, beyond what is needed. I, lack nothing from God to enable the victorious Christian walk that is able to reproduce spiritual fruit a thousandfold.
The story of the prodigal son is the perfect example of what I mean. When we realize the full depth of the love of Our God and Father and all He has provided to us, how can we not humbly say to Him: take my life and do with it as you please?
Is it the "useless to Him" part of that paragraph that bothered you guys?
Because to me I do become useless to God when I don't think deeply enough on all God has accomplished and provided to us. I think that the reason why so much failure was a part of my early Christian life was because I did not see myself as The Lord does. There are many brothers and sisters that struggle in sins of substance abuse or sexual immorality, they struggle not because they aren't trying to quit these things but because they don't apply grace to themselves to get freed from them.
If I were to try to stop sinning I would end up sinning more. Because in my flesh dwells no good thing at all, it is desperately wicked. But because I have been born anew I can choose to use the gifts of the Spirit to build upon the foundation of Christ. It is by occupying our energy in the things that God has enabled us to minister with that we are freed from the types of bondage that easily besets us.
My statement of uselessness is rooted in this primary and foundational truth of being perfected forever in Messiah Heb 10:14.
It is far too prevalent to hear messages as the guy in the video is pointing to, in our day. Those kinds of messages to me render the believers useless.
I do appreciate your feedback and will try to rethink how I've worded it. Thanks guys
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Post by shiloh on Mar 15, 2014 8:34:50 GMT
I think what we're all trying to get across is agape love. No? We, in our human state cannot fully comprehend agape love. That's the kind of love God has for each and every one of us. It is too wonderful for me to understand and I agree that we, as human beings, have some sort of "conditional love", sad to say. I know we all long to be like Him and shed all of that nature.
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