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Post by shiloh on Mar 15, 2014 0:28:58 GMT
Luke Warm And Little Strength (Q&A by Jack Kelley)Q. What is difference between lukewarm and little strength? A. Lukewarm signifies a lack of commitment such as the Lord found in the Church in Laodicea (Rev. 3:16) and was the basis of His criticism. Little strength denotes a lack of influence. This was part of the Lord’s commendation to the church in Philadelphia (Rev. 3:8) when He said they were faithful in spite of having little strength. Both these characteristics are evident in Christianity again as the End of the Age approaches. The apostate church demonstrates a lack of commitment with it’s lukewarm treatment of the gospel, whereas the true Church remains faithful to the basics of Christianity in spite of its declining influence in the world. gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/luke-warm-and-little-strength/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Gracethrufaith+%28GraceThruFaith%29 Fair Use for Information and Education Purposes
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2014 2:00:43 GMT
I'm not sure I agree with what I just read regarding Jack's definition of lukewarm believers. I thought his idea concerning it was of a wrongful belief in salvation by grace and works, or a mixing of law and grace, which I agree. But from what I read just now it seems that he considers a lukewarm believer someone who didn't make enough of a commitment or an effort to live a Christian life, making it sound like they will lose their salvation because they weren't good or obedient enough. It takes away from the message of the Gospel, in that Christ paid the price for our salvation, by saying we have to make an effort to maintain our salvation.
I think Jack is contradicting himself between saying a "lack of commitment" and what he says here right at the start of his answer to this question: gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/luke-warm-believers-follow-up/
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something in it.
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Post by shiloh on Mar 15, 2014 3:45:26 GMT
If you have followed him for a long time, you know where he is coming from on this. Commitment to him (as it should be to all of us) is as it is according to the Word. "The work of God is this; to believe in the one whom He has sent." Our works can't get us there.
If you ever get a chance to read his study titled, "OSAS, The Whole Story", I think what he's saying would become a lot clearer. I've been reading him for quite a few years now.
I don't see how that link you posted contradicts what he said in the Q&A.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2014 4:02:23 GMT
I agree with that, Shiloh. It just seemed to me like he was referring to a lack of commitment regarding works/actions when I read it, when he illustrated (here: gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/luke-warm-believers/ ) on how Christians get too busy or distracted with worldly things at some point, and that because of it they are lukewarm. I personally believe that the Lord will always get back that one sheep that strayed a little, not reject them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2014 4:31:50 GMT
Double posting here. I just read a few of his other articles, including on OSAS, and I completely agree with his train of thought, in light of what Scripture says. It's just this one that I was a little confused on what exactly he meant by it. But I was able to understand his opinion now with a few other articles.
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Post by shiloh on Mar 15, 2014 4:37:40 GMT
Right. He believes the same way and that there will be some out of the Laodicean church that will be saved also. I should find that OSAS thing for you and post it here....hang on. Read it when you get time. Go to the second link - raptureready. Here it is: OSAS, The Whole Story From: www.gracethrufaith.com raptureready.net/featured/kelley/OSAS.html Fair Use For Information and Discussion Purposes |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2014 4:47:02 GMT
Yes, you mentioned that article, it's in his "gracethrufaith" website too, it was one of the ones that I said I just checked. I didn't read the whole thing, though, I skimmed over it and read some of the Scripture verses he included. I did read a few other articles as well, that were shorter but talked about the same thing. I think they're good articles. This was the only one that confused me in understanding his train of thought, because of what I mentioned, but I was able to understand his opinion now.
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Post by LS on Mar 15, 2014 16:22:02 GMT
I agree with BrJohn here, Shiloh. I realize you knew what he meant because you've followed his teaching for so long, but it did seem like he was contradicting himself when he answered the question that BrJ linked to. I think the first one could have been worded better because my first thought was the same as BrJohns, in that it almost came across as works-based.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2014 17:05:53 GMT
That was one of my thoughts too. I was either misunderstanding it or that it could have been worded a little better. But Jack seems to have a good understanding of Scripture, and it's easier to understand his opinion with his other articles.
I think that the Lord used this one to discipline me a little though. I'll confess I haven't been spending time with Him nearly as much as He deserves, due to a distraction. This, especially, struck me:
"One of the biggest challenges we face as believers is to avoid taking our relationship with the Lord for granted, putting Him on the shelf like a child would do with a toy he no longer plays with but still wants to keep."
Fair Use for Educational or Discussion Purposes
gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/luke-warm-believers/
These words struck me so much that I'm almost sure the Lord used them for it. Not in a loss of faith or salvation kind of way, but a personal reminder that I'm being neglectful to spend time with Him. Then I went on RITAN and the verse of the day was Revelation 3:19.
I've been like this lately because of my own weakness, in a sin that wears me out, and also because of this new "toy," so to speak, that has been distracting me/occupying time that could be better spent. Nothing would ever come before the Lord in my life as far as importance goes, but this has indeed been distracting me. That's also why I wasn't posting as much last week and the other time as well. I know He is still there despite my weakness both in that sin and these distractions. It's the only thing that keeps me going. But it still makes me sad sometimes because I know He deserves so much more, even if He does love me regardless.
Just a confession. I'm trusting Him to help me get back on my feet, as nothing fills my soul like spending time with Him, and I mean it. |
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Post by LS on Mar 15, 2014 18:06:46 GMT
Isn't it amazing, BrJohn, that even though we know in our hearts that spending time with The Lord brings the most satisfaction, we still seek out ways to distract ourselves. I may be wrong, but it's probably the #1 daily battle for believers. It's interesting that you mentioned MRIC's "verse of the day", as I really enjoy those. She seems to have a knack for choosing just the right ones.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2014 18:21:25 GMT
Yes, I agree with that, LS.
Oh, I was actually referring to the "verse of the day" that is included in the side bar on the right. The verse is still there from what I can see. I've noticed MRIC's "quote of the day" threads but I think those are different ones. Say, have you been a member of RITAN all along? If so, I don't know who you are there.  I don't think I've seen a "LS" there, but I could be wrong. |
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Post by LS on Mar 15, 2014 18:35:49 GMT
The last time I was on RITAN, MRIC had just begun her verse of the day, or daily bible verse (I forget what she called it) Anyway, I really enjoyed them.
I'd lurked there for almost a year and a half before signing on as "Jim" (btw, I'm now known as "Deleted"). I made a couple of posts, but never felt comfortable there as a member. In fact, Perhaps Today made a comment recently that he felt something changed after the new site was up and running, but he couldn't put his finger on why the new board was different from the old ... and I agree with him.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2014 18:58:46 GMT
I see. Now I get it. I think I remember "Jim," and I've seen people calling you Jim around here, but I didn't make that connection. Thanks for clarifying!
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Post by shiloh on Mar 20, 2014 4:34:30 GMT
LOL! Who's who?
Now, if you've followed Jack Kelley's bible studies, feature articles and teachings, you would see that he is strictly faith based. That doesn't mean that he believes do anything you want. If we are relying on the Holy Spirit, He will change us in time but that also doesn't make us sinless. Afterall, we are/were born with a sin nature.
His view is that when we do good works it should be out of gratitude for what the Lord did for all of us on the Cross, not works based salvation.
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I don't think I've seen a "LS" there, but I could be wrong.