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Post by LS on Mar 20, 2014 17:38:42 GMT
"And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. 21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. 22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so." The truth found in these verses came up yesterday during a conversation with a friend who's in the midst of an intense trial. He said he didn't understand why specific assurances, that he believed were from the Lord, hadn't materialized. He was questioning whether anything he'd heard was truly from the Lord. At this point in the conversation I shared a lesson I learned after enduring a trail oddly similar to his. God had allowed me to believe a few things that I believed were from Him, but obviously were not. If someone would've asked me at the time if what I'd heard was truly from the Lord, I would've told them I was 98% sure that it was (I'm never 100% sure when it comes to personal direction). But those assurances never came to pass. Why? Well, I can tell you one lesson (one of a few) was that the Lord wanted me to understand how He feels when I say I'm going to do something and then fail to do it. When I shared this truth with my friend I could almost feel his reaction through the phone, accompanied by an "Oohh!!", as if a Soprano's character was saying it emphatically. So it appears that the Lord was using me to open his eyes to the same truth (it's no wonder that the Lord had us as neighbors for 12 years. Although we're 2 very different people, the Lord's method of operation in our lives has been quite similar). So my question for everyone is: Have any of you experienced this or something similar ... or are Frank and I the only ones? 
Edit: I reread this and realized that my question wasn't clear. I'm wondering if anyone else, at some point, felt that the Lord allowed them to believe a lie? |
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Post by shiloh on Mar 20, 2014 17:58:35 GMT
Good thread, LS.
I would say you are far from alone. It is a mystery to me how the Lord places certain people in our lives at different times. You were and are a willing vessel for the Lord.
There have been too many times where I've not been sure of the Lord's direction. I've always gone to someone who had better discernment and was a well seasoned, born again Christian. The Lord always seems to put someone in my path to be a mentor in guiding my ways.
I love the way HE works it all out. That should show us how intimately HE knows us.
It is certain that the Lord has used you and I believe there are special blessings for that...whether it be here on earth, or in heaven.
HE can fix our messes.
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Post by LS on Mar 20, 2014 20:55:13 GMT
Thanks for the feedback, Shiloh. I was a bit unsure about sharing that with my friend because I believe it's a lesson that may be a bit controversial to some, and I didn't know how he'd take it. Thankfully, it was what he needed to hear because when I spoke to him today, he appears to have a completely different take on his circumstances. He understands now that he's being broken from self-will, which is a huge first step in the right direction.
Now some may say, "God would never allow us to believe a lie". While I was running errands earlier a scripture kept coming to mind, so when I got home I looked it up. 2 Thessalonians 2:11 "For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie". So it does appear to be a tool that God sometimes uses for believers and unbelievers alike.
Thoughts on this anyone?
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Post by elizabeth on Mar 20, 2014 21:25:45 GMT
Jim, in 2 Thes 2:11, God is not referring to Christians that He would send a lie to.
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Post by LS on Mar 20, 2014 21:33:21 GMT
I agree, which is why I mentioned this in my last post:
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2014 21:37:43 GMT
Jim, I could tell you all the things I believed or even just considered before the Lord helped me understand things clearly last year, but they were pretty ridiculous now that I look back on them and, well, you would call me crazy, so I won't dig into them. I considered those things because I wasn't grounded in the Word yet. I'm not sure that the Lord wanted me to dig into those things in the first place, but I can tell you that I think He used them to draw me into wanting to know more about Him and prophecies and stuff. I also think that as I read and learned what His Word said regarding certain things, I also learned to weed out those lies (and in a way, lies in general like false doctrines) that I had once believed.
So if the Lord lets someone believe something at first that isn't true, it is my belief that He has a plan regarding it that will most likely include teaching that person to discern Truth from lies, through His Word.
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Post by LS on Mar 20, 2014 22:04:07 GMT
First of all, thank you for sharing that, BrJohn, I truly appreciate it (it's funny, every time I write your screen name, I'm reminded of the Christian Brothers that taught me throughout High School). The incidents that I was referring to were not regarding doctrine or scripture, but rather personal direction. Like I mentioned in the first post, I'm never 100% sure that what I believe I'm hearing from The Lord, is actually from the Lord when it's in regards to personal direction. Sometimes it's something that cannot be confirmed with scripture; for instance, making a personal move that would involve financial risk. Also, in both my case and my neighbor's, it was a move that I/we did not initiate, but prayed over and felt peace about.
Now what's of paramount importance here is that both my neighbor and I were back-slidden at the time the Lord worked this way in our lives. I think that's a huge distinction that I should've pointed out in the OP.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2014 22:40:19 GMT
Hum. Well, even if you were backslidden, I think that if the Lord had a plan for you, He would execute it. If something you prayed over didn't materialise, then it's probably because it wasn't His will for you.
I see you were saying that maybe He was trying to show you how He feels when you say you are going to do something but end up not doing it, right? I can't say I remember something like that having happened to me yet (not due to lack of failure in doing some things I originally wanted to do), but I guess that's a possibility that the Lord was trying to bring that to your attention. But if you said you were going to do something but ended up not doing it, out of weakness or something, I think the Lord understands. We just need to trust His guidance.
P.S.: I thought of putting "brother" in my username as in "brothers and sisters in Christ," not as a title or something. Lol, I always fear that people will think it's a title, for some reason.
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Post by shiloh on Mar 20, 2014 23:02:50 GMT
Cracking up over here, John, on your last statement.
LS, I have to agree with Elizabeth and John on this.
First, that was not in reference to the church. The Lord never purposely misguides us but He WILL allow those who refuse to accept the Truth (Jesus) to believe a lie.
Second, as John said, there is a purpose if we DO believe a lie (the church) in honing and sharpening our discernment. It isn't God's fault that we believe a lie. None of us want to be misguided and because our hearts are toward the Lord, He won't allow that to swallow us up....HE makes all things work toward good for those who love Him.
Although these verse refer to the unbelief of the Jews, it applies to the church also. We already belong to HIM.
…"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and My Father are One… (John 10:28-30)
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Post by LS on Mar 20, 2014 23:38:25 GMT
Here's where I disagree with you all. I was a back-slidden Christian. When you're a back-slidden Christian (I'm telling you all this because I'm assuming that none of you have been in a back-slidden state) all bets are off. The Lord will use any means at His disposal to bring a person back into the fold. He happened to walk both my neighbor and myself into chastisement by means of allowing us to believe we were being directed by Him when we obviously were not. But, as was in my case and I'm sure will happen in my neighbor's, the Lord worked it all out for good by bringing me back to the kind of walk (directed by Him) that He intends for all of us.
Like I mentioned earlier, I should've stated that both of us were in a back-slidden condition when the Lord worked in our lives this manner.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2014 23:47:53 GMT
Shiloh, I think I misunderstood what Jim was asking, that's why in my first post I was talking about lies in general (and in particular about doctrines). I now think he was asking more in a sense of personal direction, like when feeling like something is coming from God, but after you pray regarding it it doesn't come to happen. I don't think Jim was necessarily disagreeing with what you, Elizabeth or I had said concerning general lies, but more that the question he was trying to say was a little different. Lol, I think it's a case of misunderstanding here and I just wanted to clear that out.
I said in my second post that I think that if the Lord wanted something to happen in someone's life, He would have made it happen, or it probably wasn't His will afterall, and that's more what I'm leaning towards right now after rereading his post, but this is just my opinion. Everyone has made some good points.
EDIT: Jim, I agree that the Lord will always bring back a lost sheep into the fold. Maybe the Lord was indeed trying to teach you to walk again under His guidance, and not what you thought was His guidance at the time. I don't know. I guess regarding your friend you'll just have to see how it all plays out, but you can always pray for God to make His plan clear to you and him, and trust in Him.
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Post by shiloh on Mar 21, 2014 0:40:43 GMT
Which brings me right back to the point I was trying to make before. When our hearts are toward the Lord, He works all things for good. Also, look at the Prodigal son (one of my favourite parables). What did the father do when his son returned? In a nutshell, he threw a welcoming home party. The Lord knows each and every one of us better than we know ourselves. Am I missing something here? We don't always understand why He allows things but HIS purposes are known only to HIM. There are times we can look back and see why HE did things the way HE did and others not. I believe we will know all of it when we are finally there. ....and yes, LS...you're the only one out of all of us who's ever backslidden....  |
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Post by LS on Mar 21, 2014 0:54:20 GMT
If God is the same yesterday, today and forever, would it be beyond reason that He'd use a lying spirit on back-slidden believer today? A lying spirit was used to lead Ahab to his death and Jehoshaphat into a situation that led to chastisement and repentance. In fact, I think Jehoshaphat is a good example and comparable to a back-slidden Christian. I found an excellent teaching on Jehoshaphat's downward progression that I'm posting in "Articles, Links and Teachings"
Thank you all very much for your replies!
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Becka
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Post by Becka on Mar 21, 2014 0:57:47 GMT
Jim, I've been backslidden and horribly so. I used to write erotic romance. The kind with foul language. All while being a Christian. I was saved at 13. But I didn't have a solid walk with Jesus. I listened to Christian music, but my relationship with Jesus only went that far. I would pray, but for blessings. I used to talk to Him as a young girl, but I got out of that habit after getting married. (Imagine that, Paul knows what he's talking about in 1 Corinthians 7!) Anyway, I used to pray to God to *bless* my work. I asked Him to allow this publishing house or that publishing house to accept my manuscripts. I was prideful, thinking I was a very good writer. I was wooed by the money. But time and time again, doors were slammed in my face, and opportunities were lost. I had deceived myself, that God would bless my books because it was a dream I had since I was a little girl - to be a published author. It never occurred to me that the subject material would be offensive to God. I was a Christian, and God allowed Song of Solomon in the Bible, right? The rejections from certain houses stung, because I had been accepted at others. Why weren't my stories good enough? It wounded my pride. I was mad at God. I prayed! I asked for help and He wasn't helping. He let this go on for a season before slapping me upside the head with the book of Acts. My eyes were opened to my deception and I repented there on the spot. Never once looked back to that smut. Shocked a few readers. Shocked my publishers even more. The point of this story is that I didn't know God. I knew a little about Him, but nowhere near how I know Him now. I had no idea how He works, how prayer works, how prayer and holiness align with His will. None of that. So I believed what I wanted to believe. I would have told you that my relationship then was strong. But it was at it's weakest point. I wanted to be popular, famous, rich. I wanted to have my books in the bookstores. I wanted people to know my name when I said it. None of these things glorify Him. Because they were my dream, I figured God would do that for me. I had a "Joel Osteen" outlook on life. "Dying to self" was not in my vocabulary at the time. Was that a lie? Well, yes, a lie the enemy had fed me. He was distracting me from God, and I do believe God allowed it for a time. But ONLY because it was relevant to my sanctification later. My background has given me an ample springboard to now write books for His Glory. I have a built-in audience. I've influenced a few other authors to repent and reevaluate their careers. And I also believe I have a unique perspective on the "Divine Romance" between Christ and His Bride. Not in a carnal way, mind. But once the Lord explained the Gospel to me, I saw it all - the Hero, His heroine, her defeat, His sacrifice, her redemption, their happy ending. It was amazing. And I am amazed at how many Christians do not see Jesus in this light - but I have come to terms that His Body is made up of many different minds, not all that think like mine. I see your point. And I do believe God allows it for either the believer to stumble and repent on their own, or to be rebuked by a fellow brother or sister, opening their eyes to their error. Sometimes these believers stubbornly don't listen to wise counsel. That's when it's up to the Holy Spirit to do some housekeeping. ~~Becka |
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Post by LS on Mar 21, 2014 1:14:03 GMT
Wow, Becka, now that's one interesting story! Thank you for sharing it with all of us. This kind of jumped out at me (along with everything else ) That's really cool! |
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Post by shiloh on Mar 21, 2014 1:23:43 GMT
Great post, Becka. I believe God DOES allow us to stumble but not in the sense that HE will puposely send a deceiving spirit to HIS children. That would be a cruel Father and not a loving Father.
HE is nothing like the paganistic gods, who are sadistic ad cruel.
I know I'm not getting this across in the right way, but it's sort of like a baby learning to walk. They are held and guided by us an we are there if hey sumble and fall. Sometimes, they are adamant about not wanting help from you...but you are always there, ready to catch them and heal their wound if they fall and bump their head or get a scrape and bleed. We don't want them to fall or fail. Yet, sometimes often come back and agree that you were right. We always hope they will listen to us. But God is our Heavenly Father and HE knows all.
By the way, you're still an excellent writer, Becka. Now, you glorify the Lord. I wonder if I ever read any of your books in our backslidden years...lol..
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Post by LS on Mar 21, 2014 1:39:23 GMT
Well Shiloh, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I know that God allowed me to believe a lie. Frank knows God allowed him to believe a lie. And since we know God doesn't lie, then there's only one other explanation. I also know that God used that lie to walk me into chastisement, which led me back from being blinded to my own sin. Many have never experienced this and probably never will, but it doesn't mean that God doesn't use it as a refining tool. Again, I've experienced this and so has my neighbor; there's a reason God had us as neighbors for 12 years ...lol |
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Post by shiloh on Mar 21, 2014 2:03:43 GMT
No. I understand what you are saying, Jim. The important part is that HE calls us back. Has there ever been a time in any one of our walk with Christ (especially the early years) hasn't believed a lie? I don't think so, and it's all part of our growth in Him.
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Post by LS on Mar 21, 2014 2:21:12 GMT
Hi Shiloh, you said: Right, I guess the difference between what I'm speaking of and the statement above is that what I'm talking about led to the loss of everything for Frank and myself (Frank: recently - Me: 30 years ago). Neither of us were stupid before making the decisions that led us to that end (aside from the fact that we were both back-slidden Christians at the respective times of making those decisions). Each of us also believed we'd received numerous confirmations from the Lord about what we believed He was leading us to do. This is something completely different from believing a lie as a young Christian ... which is why I started this thread ... and am now (still) wishing I hadn't ... LOL |
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Post by shiloh on Mar 21, 2014 2:49:14 GMT
Maybe I'm not undershtanding becaush I don't know the situashion you're shpeaking of.
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Post by LS on Mar 21, 2014 3:10:02 GMT
Truly a man's man and the best Bond ever! Yeah, I agree, that previous post made no sense whatsoever, so I edited it. I'm hoping it might make a bit more sense now; but hey, it may not, because I'm the same guy who wrote the original one  |
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Post by shiloh on Mar 21, 2014 4:45:43 GMT
Good heavens, Jim! I'm a doctor, not a psychiatrist! lol 
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Post by LS on Mar 21, 2014 6:19:49 GMT
This horse was dead several posts ago ... LOL  |
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Post by shiloh on Mar 21, 2014 14:33:21 GMT
Hahahahaha..that picture is hysterical, Jim. I don't believe we're beating a dead horse. I think we are all using different terms and wording but mean the same thing?
I personally have never believed that the Lord has allowed me to believe a lie. I was always searching for the Truth and prayed, even though there were times in my teen years where my faith was weak. He showed me the way. It didn't come overnight but in time....and it was in HIS perfect timing.
Quid pro quo: Why do you think the Lord would let us believe a lie if it draws us nearer to Him? His eye is on the sparrow and He knows all of our paths.
Does He know who will seek Him? Yes. But we have been given free will. So that can't be excluded in the equation.
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Post by THE HORSE on Mar 21, 2014 19:47:52 GMT
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Post by shiloh on Mar 21, 2014 22:05:21 GMT
LOL! THE HORSE, I hope you join. We would all love to hear your input. 
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