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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2014 13:20:16 GMT
A fellow Christian recently reminded me that we all have discernment. As watchers, we search out information that would point to how near the rapture is. We watch nature, the middle east and most of all Israel. We listen to pastors and read out Bible. We read the word of God and listen in our spirits to our Lord. I am thinking that it is ultimately up to each and every one to listen, absorb and then decide for ourselves how close we are to the rapture.
So what is your discernment saying to you this day? |
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Post by LS on Mar 31, 2014 15:44:08 GMT
Great post, Rieom. There's a gentleman over on RITAN that served in the Navy. He made a great analogy awhile back comparing the times in which we're living to that of a Navy ship's voyage. He mentioned that they would always have an estimated time of arrival for the port to which they were heading and the Captain would do whatever was needed to arrive at that port right on time. Sometimes that meant speeding up and sometimes it meant slowing down, but they'd always pull into port right on time. This analogy really struck a chord with me because I see God working this way, not only on the world stage, but in my personal life as well. That said, there's been a lull in my personal circumstances that's lasted for about 6 months. But about 2 weeks ago, I sensed that something is about to change; I don't know if it's a change for me personally or something happening on a larger scale, but I feel that something is definitely about to change. Now, does this change pertain to the rapture? Personally, I don't think so, but I hope I'm wrong  How about you, Rieom? Are you discerning anything with regards to the rapture? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2014 16:50:31 GMT
That's a reasonable analogy, Jim.
I think that we are close, maybe even very close, for, mainly, a couple of reasons. To summarize, one being that sin is on the rise and people are quite comfortable and convinced that there is no God. The second being Israel, which is seemingly alone now, with enemies and hatred all around, and that includes these peace talks between them and the Palestinians. Peace talks which I'm almost certain will lead to no peace at all. As to the rest of the world, conflicts like the one in Ukraine, can also be considered a sign, in my opinion.
Even the US seems to be headed for the pits, once a country respected and admired throughout the world. If I recall correctly, when I was a kid around here "living in the US" used to almost be synonymous with wealth and prosperity. So, on behalf of the Portuguese people and, in a way, the EU, we welcome you, the US, to the pits. Ok, not really desiring that for the US, but you know I'm just kidding.
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Post by morningstar on Mar 31, 2014 20:13:21 GMT
My discerning spirit tells me we are very close considering the moral state of the World at this point.
BJ your right, the U.S. is declining, where once we were a Nation founded under Godly principals written in our Constitution, a haven for the Jewish People which were rejected in other countries in Europe, where here in the U.S. they flourished and so the Lord blessed this nation ("I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you")accordingly. If other countries did not prosper as we did, all you have to do is take a look at history and how they treated the Jews.. It always boils down to that one verse in Scripture. Now, sorry to say we have joined the rest of the world in our treatment of Israel so now we also will have judgment passed on us. I love and pray for my country even though I know it's probably too late.
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Post by LS on Mar 31, 2014 21:30:15 GMT
While I agree with everything you mentioned, BrJohn, I think those reasons were just as valid last year at this time, which is why I mentioned kmdickensen's (I remembered his screen name!) analogy. In fact, for me at least, last year seemed more ominous. We had the pope announce his intention to resign on February 11th, lightening struck the Vatican on February 12th, a meteor burst over Russia on February 15th, injuring around 1,500 people, a new pope was named on March 13th and Obama visited Israel about a week later.
I think everyone here is looking at Israel as the #1 indicator of where we're at prophetically and that's where the speeding up and slowing down seems to be most evident ... at least that's the way I see it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2014 22:15:35 GMT
Yes, Israel is the main thing to watch. I think we're close. Very close, I say "maybe," since we don't know for sure what will happen next. We really have had a crazy past year, though, haven't we? But even if the rapture didn't happen last year doesn't mean last year's craziness wasn't relevant, imo. The rapture could even happen tomorrow, or in the next couple of months at least. But it will all be in the Lord's timing, ultimately.
Morningstar, that could very well be it. Portugal expelled its Jews in the 1400s, all because of pressure due to royal connections with Spain. Portugal's king at that time chose the world, instead of fearing God. Then something similar happened in the 1900s during WWII, when Jewish refugees were apparently trying to get into the country but Salazar (the leader at the time) gave orders to not issue visas to them, out of fear of Nazi military action. I presume things like Catholic predominancy and, with it, acceptance of Marian and Saint veneration doctrines also led the Lord to remove His protection, and things have been going downhill since. I was usually never any good when it comes to "history" as a subject in school, I was actually always bored by it, but from what I've read a lot of this Jewish persecution happened throughout Europe as well, coinciding with the state things are in now. What a mess.
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Becka
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Post by Becka on Apr 1, 2014 0:51:24 GMT
"Soon" is all I can say. I don't want to hang my laurels on anything other than God alone, so saying He "will" come on the tetrads or next Thursday or whatever is not how I roll.
However, in seeing the state of the world, how sinners are getting more brave to face Christians and rub sin/evolution/tolerance in their faces, how the enemy is getting bolder in his attacks, how the world is reeling from one rumor of war to another rumor of war, and just everything that's going on, it's hard not to see the end as being "soon". How soon? I don't know. Hopefully within my lifetime. Each passing day seems to confirm that will happen.
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Post by shiloh on Apr 1, 2014 1:08:17 GMT
Well Morningstar, you saved me a lot of words. I agree Becka, it's worldwide. Funny though how poeple knock members of our military who have served and we are the first ones they call on. Where are all the other countries in this?! I come from a long line of military members who have fought and died, not only for our freedoms but for other countries also. Mostly, for other countries. When you hear this, it is no mystery as to why they don't think helping other countries isn't worth it anymore.
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Post by Benjamin on Apr 1, 2014 1:26:37 GMT
My instinct on this has been shared elsewhere.
I believe that 9/11 was, for want of a better term, a wakeup call for the world... and a 'last chance' of sorts for repentance (on nation-wide levels). I think that, since that date, the world has watched its own exponential decline. The closer we get to the return of Christ, the more rapidly events accelerate downward.
What strikes me now, at this point in our history, is how rapidly those events have become Israel-centered. This, I think, is the crux in terms of the nearness of the return of Christ; keeping in mind that when He does return, it will be for His church - removing her from the world in order to pour out His wrath upon not only an unbelieving world, but upon Israel. So, with the church out of the picture, God's focus turns to 'The Land'. Events now are lined up for that time, like chess pieces on a board.
Think of it. What major world events do we have?
- conflict with Iran (Iran being a major end-times nation, and part of the alliance of Ezekiel 38)
- conflict in Syria (Isaiah 17)
- conflict with Syria and Turkey (emerging just in the past few days - and Turkey being a major end-times nation too)
- conflict with Israel and Palestine (what happens in 24 hours when the peace talks fail?)
- turmoil in Egypt
- turmoil in Lybia
- turmoil over the Temple Mount
- a third temple ready to be rebuilt at a moment's notice
- Hezbollah ready for war to the north of Israel
- Hamas ready for war in the west
...I could go on, and on, and on -
but ultimately, so many of the world's major conflicts relate in one way or another to Israel. I would suggest that there has never been a time in history like this... and to be honest, it makes me rethink Matthew 24.
When Jesus said "wars and rumours of wars", did He mean that generally, or was He suggesting that ISRAEL would be involved in "wars, and rumours of wars"?
...it would be hard to argue the correct answer isn't "both".
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Post by LS on Apr 1, 2014 1:33:00 GMT
Great answer, Benjamin.
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Post by shiloh on Apr 1, 2014 2:24:20 GMT
You know, I've noticed that too. Even on Yahoo and other main pages. Everyone is focusing on Israel all of a sudden whereas we who've been watching have been focused on Israel all along.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2014 10:59:34 GMT
What a good discussion this topic started. I share in all of the above beliefs.
LS: I too have felt a change and it cannot be defined. Something is different yet on the surface the only conclusion is that evil seems to be increasing around the world. I have had the question of what is different rolling around in my mind and I have been unable to figure out what it is.
BJ: Christ is being driven out. I read an article the other day where a grade-school student had bowed her head to say a short prayer before she ate lunch. The teacher stopped her and said it is not a good thing to pray. This brave little girl stated it was good. Instances like this are happening more and more in America. In God We Trust is being trampled and repelled everywhere. We have never seen this in America before. America no longer relies upon God.
Becka: I have been feeling very soon myself fully aware my soon may not be God's soon.
Shiloh: After Vietnam, I changed my feelings on our brave men and women going into a foreign country and dying. I do believe they were sent to fight for the wrong reasons more than once. Wars seem to be profitable and I am sure money or economy motivated a good part of the deployments our brave young men and women went on.
Benjamin: Good point on wars and rumors of wars. I have always looked at that as globally. Interesting if God did mean Israel alone in this statement. I like to go on with my day chewing on a Bible verse and this one will certainly give me a lot to think about.
I think we have met all the signs we were given in the Bible for the end-times. It takes my breath away when I read a list like Benjamin's. Somehow seeing it in list form is more jarring then adding up the signs in my head.
It does seem as if the focus is on Israel especially as they are standing alone and getting battered on all sides. Then I think about Iran and there is no one willing to stop them except Israel. Israel cannot let them get nuclear weapons if they want to survive and everyday they wait is one more day that they should have acted.
I think it is very soon but date setting is something I stay away from. I have been so excited in the past looking forward to this date or that date only to find, those dates were wrong.
I also tend to think it will be an ordinary day when people are going to work or school, shopping for groceries, etc. I think the rapture deserves a day of it's own.
As far as the blood moons, I can see the rapture happening a few days before a blood moon but not on the same day.
I go to bed most nights thinking tomorrow could be the rapture. At other times, if I am not having such a good day, I tell myself the rapture could happen in the next second....
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Post by LS on Apr 1, 2014 16:35:15 GMT
Well Rieom, I was looking forward to reading what you had to say, after starting this interesting thread, and you certainly didn't disappoint  |
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Post by morningstar on Apr 1, 2014 16:48:09 GMT
Benjamin, excellent list!!..  I tend to go with this, as Jesus said " Matthew 24:44.."Therefore you also be ready for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not expect Him." Amen..Come Lord Jesus!! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2014 18:34:41 GMT
I am glad I did not disappoint LS.
MS: Matthew 24:44 is the verse that made me think the rapture will be on an ordinary day and everyone will be surprised.
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Post by LS on Apr 1, 2014 18:43:32 GMT
I'm thinking that somewhere in the world, on the day of the rapture, there will be those who might not be having an ordinary day. |
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Post by morningstar on Apr 1, 2014 18:56:59 GMT
LS, that could go for every day of the week globally for that matter what may not be ordinary for some people, is ordinary to other's..  |
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Post by LS on Apr 1, 2014 19:33:30 GMT
I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to convey. There may be those who are fleeing from persecution, war, a natural disaster etc. when He returns for his bride.
Consider this, maybe Jesus was referring to those living in Israel when he made that statement.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2014 20:01:03 GMT
Matthew 24 is addressed to the Jews. Jesus began by talking about the destruction of the Second Temple, and then He also talked about tribulation things like the "abomination of desolation" standing in the Holy of Holies of the Temple (at the middle of the final 7 years), the Jews fleeing to the mountains to hide, and signs in the sun and moon. I personally think that Matthew 24:44 is referring to the actual Second Coming as opposed to the rapture, especially since Jesus refers to it as the "coming of the Son of Man," and He won't be coming until then. But I agree that the world will be caught by surprise when the rapture happens, maybe the world won't even know what hit it at all, so to speak. Us watchers are aware of the times we could be living in, so if the rapture happened now we probably wouldn't be surprised.
But I also think that a few things at least in Matthew 24 could be paralleled with the rapture (and in a way, now) as well, like the "as in the days of Noah" verse and the "at an hour you do not expect" verse as well. Things could go into another lull now and we could think "oh, looks like there may still be a little time left after all" and then there we would go... Just my thoughts on this, and this could be a little far-fetched, especially since we never know what could happen next.
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Post by shiloh on Apr 1, 2014 20:01:24 GMT
I like that, rieom. I like all of the comments on this thread. LS, I got ya on that one. It's okay.
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