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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2014 16:54:04 GMT
I was originally going to rant about it in the chat, but I may as well make a thread and ask something else that I'm wondering too.
Easter is gonna be slightly awkward this year. Why, you ask? Well, because, over here at least, in the Catholic church there's this custom where a group of people connected with the local churches go around people's houses to 'spread the good news.' In doing so they also carry around a statue of Jesus still on the Cross, which... I don't know how to feel about that, but the worst part is that they make everyone kiss that statue. Not even just that, the statues actually depict a little blood and everything.
I'm obviously not going to want to do that this year, nor take part in that custom at all, because it pertains to the Catholic church, with which I have no interest in being associated, and because my heart is towards the living God, not statues, let alone kissing them. But whenever they come around everyone basically rushes to be gathered in one place, and if my family notices I'm not there they are probably going to make a fuss about it, because they don't understand. On top of that, usually in past years, the Sunday school teacher I had growing up is one of those people that come around in that group. If he notices I'm gone, he's probably going to ask why. I'm not bothered about explaining to anyone why I don't want to be there, it's just that if I do explain it to them, they're not only probably not going to listen, but also imply I don't know what I'm talking about. That's why it's gonna be slightly awkward.
Now that I think about it, isn't it weird, though? Why do you go around supposedly spreading the good news and yet carry around a statue of Jesus still on the Cross? It should be an empty Cross. I don't know. What are your thoughts on this, and have you ever had any weird customs like this in the past? Discuss.
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Post by elizabeth on Apr 3, 2014 18:21:10 GMT
Catholics like to glorify Christ in His agony and humiliation, up there bleeding on the Cross. I take offense to all Crosses that have a dying Christ on them. The idea of kissing such a statue, would to me, be like saying, 'yes I agree that Christ is still suffering in his agony, he could not overcome'. Someone knowledgeable in symbolism would have a better idea. An empty cross would symbolize the Cross could not hold Christ, I think.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2014 18:33:28 GMT
That certainly is a complicated position to be thrust into. If people were willing to listen to you, it would be a good time to evangelize but we know that is not going to happen.
All I can suggest is if you know the day or night they were coming you could arrange to not be home. Tell those who matter to you ahead of time you will not be there or if you are, you will not be participating.
My mom had a hard time with me being a Christian as she felt I was going to go to hell. She was a Catholic along with my dad but we never had an Easter celebration like you are describing.
I am sending prayers that you find your way through this.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2014 18:59:33 GMT
Elizabeth, well, an empty Cross wouldn't necessarily have to mean that the Cross could not hold Christ. It could convey the message that He was crucified, then was taken to the sepulchre and rose. Plus the Cross will always be a symbol of what He did for us. I don't know, it just seems weird to go around people's houses saying "He has risen!" while at the same time carrying a Cross with Jesus still in it, and on top of that having people kiss it. I don't get it, why did I never think about this before, during all those years? I'm so slow in thinking sometimes, lol.
Rieom, it's on Easter Sunday. It's a little difficult for me to arrange not to be home, plus these Catholic customs are the only thing I don't like about Easter. I don't mind celebrating Easter with my family besides that.
Oh, and I just remembered that there have been times in past years when we kissed those Crosses three times! This is because we typically start the day at my (parent's) house, then hop over to my aunt's house and then over to my uncle's house, and "kiss the Cross" at each house, because it's different local church groups. What a mess.
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Post by elizabeth on Apr 3, 2014 19:12:18 GMT
John, sorry, when I wrote the Cross could not hold Christ, I meant death could not hold Christ, that He is risen. I'm sorry, I worded that badly.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2014 19:23:04 GMT
Oh, ok. Yes, that's pretty much my thought as well. I'll need to go to the Lord about this... I mean I can avoid this fine, but it still bothers me that my family will do it, and is still blind with these things. I just feel like telling them that it's time to wake up, ditch man's doctrines and start taking the Word and things seriously. But I also don't want to cause drama, and I don't want to rely on my own ways, so I am unsure how to go about this.
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Post by morningstar on Apr 3, 2014 19:34:44 GMT
BJ, born and raised in the Catholic Church I know what you mean about some of their traditions, which vary in different countries. It is a dilemma especially with family, but just remember that the only one you have to please is the Lord himself, and I don't think the Lord would be pleased with this tradition. You know by now that as a Christian we will offend family and friends who do not share our beliefs and like you say, it can be awkward. I'm sure you've read this Scripture before, but it's always a good reminder when faced with this type of situation:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2014 19:51:23 GMT
Morningstar, thanks for posting too, and yes, I have read those verses before. I can assure you that my mind was made up even before starting this thread, that I would not take part in these particular customs, regardless of what my family would say. The Lord comes first, He knows that, and He has even tested me before, in making a choice between family traditions and His Word.
With this thread I was mainly trying to rant about it and share it with you, because it does bother me and because it will be unpleasant to confront my family when they ask me about it, since I know from past experiences that they will not understand, being rooted in the Catholic traditions. I don't like confrontation in general, but if it comes down to choosing between the Lord and man's traditions, I will gladly take the first and defend it. I also wanted to get your own thoughts and experiences, like if you ever had any weird customs like this.
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Post by shiloh on Apr 3, 2014 21:14:57 GMT
You know what I have a problem with? Eating a chocolate cross. I know that sounds stupid. A lot of people don't have a problem with that. I don't know why that bothers me. I felt so horrible when I was reading the Berean Call and those guys made me feel like I was doomed forever because I have a tiny Cross that I wear at times. They said it was idolatry. I can see that if you're wearing it like Madonna or one of those women that flaunt it. But for me, that's a statement of my faith and I don't dress like they do. I have no problem eating bunny ears though.....
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Post by morningstar on Apr 3, 2014 21:20:55 GMT
It's good to Rant!!!.... I remember on Palm Sunday, we attended Mass and they would hand out palm branches and would bless them with holy water, then we would make them into a cross and set them up in the house as a reminder. On Good Friday, they had the stations of the Cross....where the priest's would circle the Church and stop at each of stations and say a prayer (in Latin)....it had to be the most boring and longest mass (2 hours long) especially since I didn't couldn't understand a word they said...I am so glad I left the RCC...too many traditions and pomp and ceremony, when half the time you weren't paying attention anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2014 21:29:06 GMT
Shiloh, I don't see any problems with empty Crosses, regardless if Christians have them for instance displayed on a wall or wear it. It's the Crosses that so graphically display Christ still on the Cross that are a little weird. It's like they're focusing only on His death, instead of rejoicing with His resurrection and overcoming death and the world. The Lord knows my heart, and what I believe in, as I'm sure He knows yours too. I wasn't aware there were even chocolate Crosses. It seems weird to eat them as well, though.
Morningstar, I agree. There is too much focus on outward display in the RCC, and not enough (if any at all) inward development. It always bugged me how people would say those set prayers like a broken record player, emotionless, quickly and over and over again, as if the more they repeated them, the better the "result."
I know of a couple other weird customs as well, involving praying for the dead. One of which involves going to the cemetery every year on November 1, where the local priest leads everyone there with the same set prayers, including the "hail Mary", also over and over again as well. I noticed and wondered why it always seemed to rain on November 1, and I'm not even joking. But the atmosphere during it is just depressing. I didn't go last year, it was one of those instances when I told my mother I was not going anymore to those things and explained to her why we shouldn't pray for the dead. It didn't seem to help, though.
The other involves paying the local priest to lead a small Mass in prayer for certain people that have passed away, with all families present. One of which is happening again this month, for my grandfather, because April is the month he passed away many years ago. So clearly my mother didn't give ears to what I told her back in November, and I most certainly won't be going to this one either.
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Post by shiloh on Apr 3, 2014 21:41:56 GMT
You know what, John? I never noticed that before until others started bringing it up. My mother-in-law was furious about that. She was a Baptist. They say the RCC crucifies Christ continually. I guess I never looked at it that way because, being raised in the RCC, I saw it as a reminder of what Christ did for us and not continually crucifying Him again. Do you know what I mean? I see a bit of the law creeping in here. It's our heart that matters. Morningstar, lol. I remember all that stuff too.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2014 22:39:11 GMT
(Morningstar, a quick note, I edited my previous post with a reply to yours, since I missed it when I first posted it.)
Shiloh, that's what I was always told too. But we shouldn't need a reminder of what He did for us in the first place. It's not about legalism for salvation, it's about trying to avoid things that could potentially displease the Lord, or hinder our growth as Christians. Out of love, not legalism. I couldn't keep the Law on my own to save my life. Literally. Thankfully, the Lord fulfilled it for us, and He clothes us with His righteousness, through faith. Anything I do now I do out of faith and love for the Lord, not to keep the Law for salvation.
He was crucified, and He has risen, and He lives. He is no longer up on the Cross. I find that the simplest and humblest things are often the best. If we're gonna have something that portrays what He did, why not just a simple empty Cross? It reminds us and conveys all these messages, without depicting the Lord Himself as a lifeless statue, let alone still on the Cross and, in this particular Catholic tradition, kissing it.
You'd also be surprised how many people end up "blessing" and looking at statues as if they are actually things capable of power, especially inside the Catholic church. And where do you find most of these statues? You got it, in the RC churches. It ingrains itself in people's minds and stops being just for a "reminder." It's why I'd rather just avoid them altogether.
"15 The idols of the nations are silver and gold, the work of human hands. 16 They have mouths, but do not speak; they have eyes, but do not see; 17 they have ears, but do not hear, nor is there any breath in their mouths. 18 Those who make them become like them, so do all who trust in them." - Psalm 135:15-18 (ESV)
In my opinion, these verses apply to now as much as they did back then.
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Post by Benjamin on Apr 4, 2014 0:07:56 GMT
Well, this thread took off.
When I was little, I often used to ride my bike past a Catholic Church not far from my parents' house. Outside that church is a stylized image of Jesus, nailed to a cross.
I don't necessarily have a problem with the cross itself, it's been a symbol for Christ for as long as anybody knows. Having Christ on that cross, though, tends to suggest to me a lack of understanding of the completeness of that work. Christ did what the Father required, and is no longer on that cross.
I always wanted to go there at night, and cut Him down... and leave a sign behind, saying:
...because if that verse doesn't say it all, I don't know what does.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2014 0:18:07 GMT
I actually still remember you saying that on a different thread before too, Benjamin. Thanks for sharing it here as well.
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Post by morningstar on Apr 4, 2014 0:37:36 GMT
Benjamin, when you rode by that Church on your bike, did you stop and take notes???...LOL...I still chuckle at the story your mom mentioned, when you were 6 yrs old and taking notes on your Pastors Sermon that was priceless..
You hit the nail on the head...that's exactly what it is. It's more of a traditional teaching of the Church, and I have to say that 85% of Catholics don't read the Bible and only follow what the church has taught for hundreds of years. And a percentage of those that do, are starting to question the churches interpretation of it.. and some have left the church because of it.
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Post by shiloh on Apr 4, 2014 6:59:53 GMT
I think we're all on the same page here but expressing it differently. Sorry, but I'm laughing, Benjamin. Did you really write notes or were they mental notes? hahahahahaha. I can see how others think but even being raised in the RCC, I thought how you all did. I didn't have this mental image of our Lord being crucified all over again. It was just a reminder of what He did for us and I knew He was risen. Does anyone understand that way of thinking? I already knew that. I honestly do not understand what the big deal is about Jesus being on the Cross or not. If we are so focused on that, then it DOES become idolatry. We all know what He did for us. I can't understand why people get so hung up on that. I know He was risen just as all of those who don't have Jesus on the Cross. Why does this have to be so dogmatic? Remember, it's our heart.
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Post by lavoietheway on Apr 5, 2014 12:41:58 GMT
I wonder where the tradition of eating ham comes from. Where I come from (Québec), ham is the traditional meal on Easter Sunday. I suppose no Jew would be able to partake...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2014 14:42:34 GMT
Shiloh: I can understand your point perfectly. I always thought of Jesus on the cross of a reminder of what he suffered for us. It does not both me at all.
Lavoietheway: We eat a clam boil for Easter but also will have a ham for those who do not like seafood.
BJ: I have never heard of the custom of praying for the dead in the cemetery like that. Your RCC seems to differ in some ways from the RCC I grew up in.
I do remember masses each year for the dead.
Three times you have to go through this on one day? I think that would suck out all the anticipation of eating Easter Dinner.
MS: The stations on the cross was an agony to sit thru. I got very good at "spacing out." During Lent we used to ask to go to the stations of the cross every Friday. We would get dropped off in back of the church, go in a side door and out the front door and reverse it when it was time to get picked up. I remember Palm Sunday which we used to hit each other as kids. Ours always were laid across pictures around the house until the next Palm Sunday.
Benjamin: Just what kind of notes were you writing at that young age?
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Post by shiloh on Apr 5, 2014 21:38:38 GMT
This thing about a Cross never bothered me until people started bringing it up and voicing their complaints. People seem to have such an angst about it. I never saw an issue with it. I knew Christ was risen. I also agree, rieom. I don't remember praying for the dead at cemetaries either. I DO remember th Mass's they would hold where they include the souls of the dead but I never said any prayers for them because I knew they were already at their destination. I mean, you can't pray somebody out of hell. They already made their decision either for Christ or against Him. That wasn't rocket science to me as a kid and it's not rocket science now. Even when I was a kid, God instilled the truth in me as He does for all of us, just as at a certain young age we know right from wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2014 22:14:19 GMT
Rocket science? Unless I'm mistaken, it wasn't praying to get someone out of hell. It was praying to get someone out of "purgatory" or spend less time in it. It's not about being rocket science, it's about being raised with those teachings, which you can't get out of unless you get away from it and start reading the Word for yourself. But hey, what do I know? Maybe some of us are born taught. I for one wasn't one of them.
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Post by shiloh on Apr 6, 2014 4:32:25 GMT
LOL! That's very true but then the RCC supposedly moved away from the whole Purgatory thing but maybe they've gone back to it? Just tweet the pope and you can get out of Purgatory free card. However, we know it is not scriptural for there being any such thing as Purgatory, nor is there a Limbo. John, you gotta start posting more, so you can get out of that donkey stage you're labeled with....hahahahahahahaha...we all know you're not a donkey but I think they're sweet.
Sweetly sings the donkey at the break of day. If you do not feed him this is what he'll say.. Hee Haw, Hee Haw, hee haw, hee haw, hee haw.
You should hear my donkey imitation with the "hee haw". You sort of have to suck in air when you do it though...lololol
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2014 14:14:20 GMT
I forgot about Purgatory. I feel purgatory was being taught and threatened and hit by nuns for 1-8 grades.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2014 21:21:43 GMT
Rieom, I forgot to reply to your previous post. This November 1 thing is in celebration of "All Souls' Day", which is actually on November 2, but they do this cemetery celebration thing here on November 1 instead because it's a holiday ("All Saints' Day"), and not everyone would be able to attend on November 2, which is not a holiday. I don't know what the customs are throughout the world, but here where I live it's actually pretty widely celebrated among Catholic families. Sadly, I may add.
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Post by shiloh on Apr 15, 2014 0:57:26 GMT
John, maybe you can just say (when presented with the Cross with the statue of Jesus on it...), "My Jesus is risen." I find it odd that they would do that on Resurrection day, especially. I've never heard of that custom before. I have noticed here at Catholic churches (I only attend funerals there anymore) that the ones I have been to have removed Jesus from the Cross and it is now an empty Cross. That includes the one I was raised in. Lovoietheway, I wondered about the ham thing too. I always thought it was because Jesus deemed all food clean. Looks like I was wrong. I'd much rather have seafood. We always had a tradition ham here too. However, I could eat seafood every day of the week. I found this link about ham and it's roots are in paganism: www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/origin-of-easter-ham-faq.htm
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Post by Benjamin on Apr 15, 2014 1:59:55 GMT
I've always found it weird that a lot of people here eat fish on Good Friday... and yet they seem to expect that I would, too. People seem to be completely unaware that it's a Catholic Thing - and before that, part of cultic fertility rituals. Regardless of any occult connection, I don't understand why people who aren't Catholic would bother.
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Post by shiloh on Apr 15, 2014 2:20:23 GMT
Over here they have fish frys all over the place during Lent. Some people just like fish, is my guess. Even though it's supposed to be a sacrifice, it never was for me when I followed that tradition. Unless, you were at your grandmother's and were forced to eat prefabricated fish sticks that had been in the freezer and they tasted like mothballs. My dad came over there to eat after work to pick us up (my mom was in the hospital at that time). I whispered to my dad when my grandmother was out of earshot, "Dad, these things taste like mothballs." and he said, "No. They can't be that bad. Just eat them." He sat down and started eating them and went, "Oh wow! You're right! They DO taste like mothballs! That's it. We'r going to McDonald's!" lolol..he saved us, as usual! Why in the world would someone put mothballs in their freezer, anyway? ? Unless their intent is to poison someone...lol... You know what I miss? Arthur Treacher's Fish and Chips. They don't have those here anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 1:04:29 GMT
Oh, I missed these last posts.
Cultic fertility rituals?? What...? No, wait, don't tell me. I'm not sure I can take any more craziness.
Well, I was always told that people don't eat meat on Fridays during 'Lent' because it's supposed to be a sort of minor 'fast' in rememberance of Jesus' pain in the flesh. I gave up that custom when I left the RCC years ago, and haven't taken it up since because I just don't see the point. The Lord knows my heart, and He paid it all. It's done. I don't think eating meat on Fridays will make a difference, especially since I'm grateful for provision, be it whatever it is.
Lol, Shiloh. I can already picture it: "I made your favourite. Mothballs."
Oh, no. Is that link about the ham and the name "Easter" legit? "Ishtar" sounds similar to "Easter." In Portuguese, we call Easter "Páscoa", apparently coming from the Hebrew "Pesakh" or Passover. So the name doesn't derive from "Ishtar." But if in English "Easter" comes from "Ishtar", and the latter is referring to a 40-day period, why isn't Lent called Easter, instead?
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Post by shiloh on Apr 16, 2014 1:18:24 GMT
Apparently, the RCC incorporated many of the pagan customs surrounding the Resurrection. I never realized that until I was older and started reading things about "Easter". We were always told that chocolate bunnies, marshmallow peeps, etc. represented new life in Christ.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 1:37:17 GMT
Hum. Chocolate bunnies, eggs and such aren't really a thing in the Catholic customs here, they're more of a secular tradition from what I can tell. Kind of like the chocolate "Santas" in Christmas. Lol, but I always get paranoid now about the origins of certain aspects.
Well, I know what my beliefs are and what I'm celebrating, so... I think that's what matters.
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