bibelleser
Exodus Traveller
Posts: 30
Favourite Verse: Acts 2:21
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Post by bibelleser on Nov 8, 2017 21:17:53 GMT
In 2Cor 6:2 Paul writes to the Corinthians: "now is the day of salvation". Therefore, after having discussed "His day" in Lk 17:24 (see the thread "His day") I would now like to discuss with you the following thoughts:
1. When did the day of salvation start? 2. When will the day of salvation be finished (or: what will be it's last event)?
What do you think? What is your opinion about that?
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Post by peaceinthestorm on Nov 9, 2017 12:51:44 GMT
In 2 Corinthians 6:2, Paul is showing us that the prophecy from Isaiah 4 was fulfilled through Jesus. The day of salvation started with Jesus's death.
I think the day is finished when "His day" starts. That would be the rapture. The reason is because this is when Jesus takes his church. There will be no one else taken into the group called the "bride of Christ".
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bibelleser
Exodus Traveller
Posts: 30
Favourite Verse: Acts 2:21
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Post by bibelleser on Nov 9, 2017 14:28:31 GMT
Thanks for your opinion. Are there other opinions apart from the one above?
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bibelleser
Exodus Traveller
Posts: 30
Favourite Verse: Acts 2:21
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Post by bibelleser on Nov 10, 2017 22:20:49 GMT
No other opinion available?
Anyway, let's try to identify the "day of salvation". You are right: In 2 Corinthians 6:2, Paul is showing us that the prophecy from Isaiah 49:8 was fulfilled through Jesus. That's true.
However, if we stick to God's definition of the word "day" (Gen 1:5), we have to respect the fact, that there is no light day without it's associated full day. In other words: Every light day is a section of a full day. Without exception. Furthermore: the Bible (as well as the Jews) determine the light day always to be the second section of the associated full day (e.g. the Sabbath day starts with its night on Friday evening at 6 o' clock). Therefore, "His day" (second section: after the rapture) can not follow the "day of salvation". There should be a night inbetween, right?
So I think, your opinion, that the "day of salvation" will be followed by "His day" does not fit to the rhythm (or to the relationship) of light and full day.
Do you have any other idea of how to identify the period "day of salvation" (Isa 49:8/2Cor 6:2)?
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Post by MyWhiteStone on Nov 11, 2017 18:00:27 GMT
I believe mortal people will be saved by the blood of the Lamb up until the Great White Throne Judgment begins. Each individual's death, however, should Christ continue to be rejected as being that person's atonement for his sin, terminates his day of salvation.
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bibelleser
Exodus Traveller
Posts: 30
Favourite Verse: Acts 2:21
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Post by bibelleser on Nov 12, 2017 15:50:25 GMT
Thank you, VirtuallyGone, for your reply. You are right: mortal people will be saved by the blood of the Lamb until the Great White Throne Judgment begins. This is a fact which can help us to better identify the period "day of salvation".
Any sinners death, however, will not cease the day of salvation. It's not a sinners day of salvation, because Paul was not talking about many individual days of salvation. There is only one. This single day is a time period in biblical prophecy which is not fulfilled through a sinner's conversion, but - as peaceinthestorm said - through Jesus.
Jesus is the one who was meant by Isaiah when he foretold: "In a time of favor I have answered you; in a day of salvation I have helped you" (Isa 49:8). Considering the context of Isaiah 49 the message is that in a day of salvation God has helped the Messiah who was rejected by his own people. Thus, this prophecy was fulfilled after God helped the Messiah, that means: after God "highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name". Hence, the day of salvation did not start with Jesus's death (while God left him alone and did not help) but with his exaltation and his glorification thereafter. The period "day of salvation" started when the revived Son of Man went to heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.
The name "Jesus" in Hebrew language is: "Jeschua". It means: God is salvation. The Hebrew name for the day of salvation is: "Jom Jeschua". It still contains the source of the salvation which is God. This is unfortunately lost in the translation: day of salvation. Hence, this day could better be named as: the day in which God is salvation. But that's too long. So the ususal translation is: the day of salvation. However, it could also be translated as: the day of Jesus (Hebrew: Jom Jeschua). Therefore, we can say: the day of Jesus (or the day of salvation) is the period in which the name "Jesus" stands for salvation. This name is above every name.
Now, before we proceed with pinpointing the day of salvation, I would like to ask the following: If you compare "Jom Jeschua" (the day of salvation, resp. the day of Jesus) with "His day" (please consider always the two meanings of the word "day") - what would be your conclusion now (for the period "day of salvation")?
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bibelleser
Exodus Traveller
Posts: 30
Favourite Verse: Acts 2:21
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Post by bibelleser on Nov 15, 2017 10:47:34 GMT
"The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast in those days." (Lk 5:35)
"The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast in that day." (Mk 2:20)
If you believe in verbal inspiration of the Holy Scripture, and if you compare the two verses above, you will recognize, that Jesus (looking forward into the time of his absence from earth) talked about a "day", even though his absence takes many days. Curious, isn't it? Did you ever notice it?
Which "day" was he talking about? He just called this time "day" without any further specification. However, we already discovered that "His day" in Luke 17:24 (see separate thread) started at the same time (directly after the ascension of the Lord Jesus). We also discovered that "His day" is a full day consisting of two sections: first it's night and second it's light day. Hence, "that day" (Mk 2:20) means "that full day".
There is obviously a long lasting period in biblical prophecy, which is called "day" and which starts directly after the ascension of the Lord Jesus, right?
Now, what do you think about the "day of salvation"? Isn't it the same period as "His day" (Lk 17:24) or "that day" (Mk 2:20)?
Yes or No? What would you say?
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Post by MyWhiteStone on Nov 15, 2017 15:23:19 GMT
Somehow I am not finding the "answer" either personally compelling, stimulating, or satisfying to probe, bibelleser. Sorry. I would be interested in being told about your proposed answer though, but you might not find that stimulating or satisfying to reveal in that way.
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bibelleser
Exodus Traveller
Posts: 30
Favourite Verse: Acts 2:21
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Post by bibelleser on Nov 16, 2017 15:45:43 GMT
If you have read the complete thread about "His day", finding the "answer" should be no more a problem. The correct answer is: "Yes, it is the same period".
Anyway, the main question in this thread is: When will the day of salvation be finished (or: what will be its last event)? This question is not yet answererd sufficiently.
Peaceinthestorm said: "I think the day is finished when "His day" starts. That would be the rapture."
Also some of the well known bible teachers are of the opinion, the day of salvation would be followed by another "day" (e.g. the day of Judgement or the day of the Lord). An example is given below by F.B. Hole. He said the following:
"Verse 2 Corinthians 6:2 is parenthetical and in brackets. The first part of it is a quotation from Isaiah 49:8. The words quoted are addressed prophetically to the Messiah, who was to be rejected, and yet become a light to the Gentiles and salvation to the end of the earth. In spite of His rejection He should be heard and helped of Jehovah; and the hour when He should be heard and helped would be the time accepted and the day of salvation. The latter part of the verse points out that we are living in that very hour. He has been heard in resurrection, and with His resurrection the day of salvation has begun. It will continue until the day of Judgment supervenes." (https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/fbh/2-corinthians-6.html)
Hole was a brilliant bible teacher, and I fully agree with his interpretation above - except the last two sentences (which I put in bold). I would not say that Christ has been heard in resurrection, for he did not pray for this (he was even able to revive by his own power, see John 10:18). But he prayed for his glorification (see John 17:1), which has been heard by God by exalting the Son of Man into the highest possible position at his right hand. Thus, not with his resurrection, but with his exaltation the day of salvation has begun. However, this is only a very small difference. Not very important.
But looking at the end of the day of salvation, a very important difference appears, because Hole was (beside others) of the opinion that the great tribulation will terminate the day of salvation. But this opinion is wrong. Neither the great tribulation nor the day of Judgement or any other "day" will terminate the day of salvation.
VirtuallyGone already said that "mortal people will be saved by the blood of the Lamb until the Great White Throne Judgment begins." Hence, the day of salvation must continue until the Great White Throne Judgment begins. It must continue until the end of time.
Therefore, the day of salvation must be understood as a full day which started with its night (after the ascension of Christ) and will be followed (after the rapture/tribulation) by its light day.
This is completely in line with what Paul said to the Romans in view of the salvation: "For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed. The night is far gone; the [light] day [of salvation] is at hand." (Rom 13:11-12) Additions in brackets [ ] are made by myself in order to better show what Paul meant.
Furthermore, although we now live in the day of salvation, our salvation is still hope (1Thes 5:8). Our salvation is still a hidden one, it is not yet manifested, now it can be obtained only by faith. However, the salvation will be revealed (1Peter 1:5), and all the ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God (Ps 98:3/Isa 62:1-2a/Lk 3:6). Should the day of salvation already be over just before the salvation has come to light? For sure not.
The day of salvation, the Jom Jeschua, is obviously identical with the great epoch which Jesus called "His day" (Lk 17:24). It is a full day. It's night began with the ascension of the Lord Jesus. It's light day will dawn together with the return of the Son of Man, the revelation of the salvation. Paul also called it the "day of redemption" (Eph 4:30).
I guess, the day of salvation (2Cor 6:2) is discovered now.
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Post by peaceinthestorm on Nov 18, 2017 2:44:31 GMT
Thanks for the conclusion. Won't we be amazed when we get to heaven and we understand fully all the details that are in the Bible. It is truly an amazing book.
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bibelleser
Exodus Traveller
Posts: 30
Favourite Verse: Acts 2:21
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Post by bibelleser on Nov 18, 2017 14:28:11 GMT
Yes, indeed. The more we read the more we discover. However, I'm sure that the Holy Scripture contains many more surprises which have not been discovered yet. We will be astonished about it when we are in heaven.
But for now, may I ask you the following? What would you say? Did these two studies anyhow revise (or complete or change or influence) your thoughts about the biblical day of the Lord?
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Post by peaceinthestorm on Nov 19, 2017 22:20:25 GMT
I do like studies like these. The biggest revelation to me was in Luke 17:31 and Luke 17:34. One verse referring to the night and the other the day. It really made the meaning of this whole passage much clearer. Overall it will cause me to pay more attention when the bible speaks about day or night.
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bibelleser
Exodus Traveller
Posts: 30
Favourite Verse: Acts 2:21
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Post by bibelleser on Nov 20, 2017 9:52:36 GMT
Thank you, peaceinthestorm. Your answer has delighted me. For me it was also a big surprise to discover that "His day" already started after the ascension of our Lord Jesus as well as to recognize that "His day" is a full day with the two sections night and light day. This result of a several months daily study of only Luke 17:20-35 was so much overwhelming for me that I wept with joy.
Based on this I discovered that the day of salvation spans exactly the same period, which is also identical with the so called "day of the Lord". There is no sequence in these "days", because there is only one great day in the bible prophecy.
Unfortunately, even leading pre-trib teachers think that "His day" is just a 24 hour day. I don't know why. Recently I received a mail from one of the leading present pre-trib prophecy experts in the United States, a graduate of the Dallas Theological Seminary. He wrote:
QUOTE The reference to "that night" in 17:34 could refer to the fact that when Christ comes it will be day in part of the world and night in the other part. UNQOUTE
Unfortunately, this is still a widely shared opinion, however, it is nonsense. It does neither fit to the fact that the people are sleeping as well as working (which means that this night covers the whole world, even the part where the people work while the sun is shining), nor to the fact that the light day (Lk 17:31) takes many days (as already demonstrated in the thread about "His day").
Unfortunately, this wrong imagination seems to block even the experts view. Hence, they don't see the full day.
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